Please Heelp!
AnimalBehaviorForensicSc...@hushmail.com
Seems your pals over at rec.pets.dogs.behavior need some backup..
PLEASE HEELP!
From: "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com>
Date: 2 Dec 2005 10:55:41 -0800
Subject: Re: In defense of Jerry Howe's methods
Mary Healey wrote:
> I'm still asking for 5 original posts from people here at least 5 years to
> support your initial contention. You're 0 for 2, so far.
That's 2 in 2 as far as I'm concerned but hey, if you insist. I'm
really curious to see what will be the justification this time. So far
we have:
Limited choking? Hey, it's limited, As Neo would say: Woah, there is no
choke.
Dogs pumped full of prozac? Hey, they're trippin man. Remember
Woodstock. Euh.... Woodwhat?
E-Collar? I'm sure some of you will come up with: But my dog look so
pretty with an electrified perm. Swoooon.
So on with the fun. Taken from the "Collars" thread, started by Perry
Templeton June 20 2005
Denis
----------
On 26 Jun 2005 10:52:42 -0700, lucyaa...@claque.net, wrote:
>What does the "choke" in the "choke chain" stand for, then?
>Lucy
one reason I call them slip collars. Their is a correction involved,
and while it causes momentary discomfort, does not choke the dog.
OTOH, it is CAPABLE fo being used to do that, should a situation
warrant it.
--
Janet B
----------
And here's another one from the same author, taken from the same
thread.
----------
167. Janet B
Jun 21, 12:03 pm show options
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:40:11 +0100, "Alison"
<Ali...@XYZallofus2.fsnet.co.uk>, wrote:
> I'm just wondering why you had to use choke chains to train"your
>dogs especially as they are so small.
Oh geez - let's see - how many JRTs act like alligators at the end of
a leash? I personally prefer prong collars.
----------
Let's go for the hat trick with the same author, taken from the same
thread:
----------
141. Janet B
Jun 27, 10:01 pm show options
I don't use choke chains. Not quite true - I use a jeweler's hex link
on Franklin at times - it's puuuuuurty. I know the "sound" thing
and all, and when training a dog in a non-group setting, that sound
may be a factor, but I think it fails in the context of a group class.
So, I prefer the better fitting nylon slip collars, and very often,
pinch collars (small link unless it's a freaky dog, then they need
the milder medium link).
But I use e-collars too. With one of my dogs and with some clients.
For circumstances where a physical collar and leash is not the right
answer. I'm sure Lucy has no clue what THAT means!
--
Janet B
----------
Subject: Re: In defense of Jerry Howe's methods
HOWEDY Deltones,
Deltones wrote:
> Rocky wrote:
> > "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> > rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what would be the
> > > point? Where I come from, choking is choking. It's never
> > > limited.
Not so in PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING, Deltones.
> > So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs. Thank you for
> > your contribution.
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
Looks like you've pushed the mental cases over the edge again...
> Well, I think you carefully avoided quoting the last part of my post.
> You know the one about a bunch of little Colonel Parker doing Elvis's
> out of their dogs? Oh right, limited choking is not abuse, and pumping
> dogs full of drugs to make them behave ain't either in your world huh?
> For the benefit of our gentle readers, here's the part you forgot to
> quote:
> ----------
> Oh, what the hell. Check out a thread started around Nov 23 called
> "Help with a Nuerotic Hound..." where I wonder if you guys are talking
> about dogs or Woody Allen's pharmacy. I'll stick with praises and noise
> distraction to train my dog, thank you.
> ----------
HOWEDY janet,
Looks like you and your pals have gone totally INSANE again:
Janet B wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 14:44:14 -0500, Janet B
> <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>, clicked their heels and said:
> >Since you quoted me repeatedly, where does it say I beat dogs, choke
> >dogs, scream at dogs, etc? Thanks for your clarification.
> responding to my own post, I had to go back and look at the original
> post, to remind myself what "we" are all accused of doing:
> "screaming, choking, shocking, pinching,
> beating the living crap out of your dogs"
> Scream? no
> Choke? no
> Shock? e-collars are a lot more sophisticated than that
> Pinch? if you want to classify a momentary discomfort by a prong
> collar, go ahead, but unless you have first hand experience with one,
> your opinion means nothing
> Beat the living crap out of? hardly - no hitting exists
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction"
--Janet Boss
"Janet Boss offered a pat on the back, commenting that
ultimately it wasn't Kate's decision. Whose was it? I asked.
Why, it was Teena's, averred Janet.
Janet was in an exculpatory frame of mind because she
contributed to this travesty herself, by advising Kate to
repeat the aggression trigger (grooming) on a daily basis.
It's all in the archives.
Now these two are spouting off about what kind of e-collars
they like to use on their dogs. Well, I've got an AC Delco
model that would be just right for Janet or Kate. BZZZZzzt!
I'd have to find it though, and I can't remember if I left
it in my underground bunker or the crawlspace under my
house," Charlie.
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
"Reliable Punishment Cycles, Different Thresholds To Pain And
Punishment,
High Tolerance For Correction, Escalation Of Correction To A Level
Where The
Dog Yelps When You Punish Him, Thus Making The Experience One Which
The Dog Will Want To Avoid In The Future," grant teeboon RAAF.
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."
THAT'S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
sinofabitch writes:
> >> What I have said- repeatedly - is that he took
> >> posts from two different people,
Of curse THAT'S a lie.
> >> took pieces of them out of context,
Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?
> >> cobbled them together,
No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.
> >> then added his own words:
"Neatly," and "Smartly."
> >> and a fake signature.
"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.
> >> Which is exactly what he did.
INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.
> >> The actual quote is misleading
That so?
> >> when taken out of context,
We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...
> >> and Jerry's faked "quote"
The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.
> >> is downright meaningless.
Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.
> > Here's Jerry's version
> > "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
> > Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
> > Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
> > Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
> > Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
> > Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
> > Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
> > Here's yours;
> > "I dropped the leash, threw my
> > right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
> > grabbed her opposite foot with my
> > left hand, rolled her on her side,
> > leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
> > nipped her ear.
> > --Sara Sionnach
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
See?
"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
> "Training is not confrontation"
> Lynn K.
> <except when it is>
> "So what? Whoever said that it's right to
> always not confront? We sure can try, but
> a dog who knows a command and growls when
> given it is certainly being confrontational".
> You can't simply walk away and pretend it
> didn't happen or leave it for later work in
> every situation."
> Lynn K.
> --------------------------------------
"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.
And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.
Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."
Lynn K.
---------------------------------
Paxil Princess psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."
"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them more
sharply.
REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.
Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your will fades in importance.
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the
dog will give in
With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'
Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.
Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear," lying frosty dahl.
"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:
"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue:
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
ginge...@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.
"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.
Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."
8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).
If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.
This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."
Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...
> >> Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
> >> quotes are true.
> >> In the posts below you take responsibility for
> >> making those calls.
> >> In your post above, you state you do not
> >> make those calls.
> >> Which one is it?
WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to
learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever
to post such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we
earn the right to participate in by observing
the easily understood rules and contributing
to in constructive ways."
Lynn K.
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS
Almost 50 years on mental illness medications combined
> But I think what Lois was referring to
> was the fact that Darlene actually
> stated at some point that she was
> bipolar--and, IIRC, that meds did not work
> for her--so she was prone to major-league
> ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/03
BoxHill wrote:
> I know I am totally off topic here, but have you read
> "The Unquiet Mind"?
Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of
watered down for the mass market, if
you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and
decent research. Thank God.
Lynn K.
---------------------------------------
MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION
"KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"
MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS
DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...
YOU DO THE MATH
"What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,
'I take anti-depressives'"
From: Gary & lois Edwards (g...@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/02
BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS
"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,
"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted."
The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.
No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."
Lois E.
-------------------------------------
"BethF" <b...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com>
wrote in message
news:v4r8kkf...@corp.supernews.com...
> "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatri...@adelphia.net>
wrote in message
> Kyle, FWIW, i thought it was pretty funny,
> and i often call my little dog the turd, because
> he is one. Some folks think its HORRRIBLE i
> would insult my dog like that so i guess its just a
> matter of personality.
> Kyle, the best way to teach him to stay away is to
> step on him once. Seriously.
"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most
Of The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That
Interested In Praise."
"BethF" <d...@alaska.com> wrote in message
news:uohnj3r...@corp.supernews.com...
Maybe that's what we should do - hold back the dobie
girl so that Izzy can put Simon in his place.
------------------------------------------------------
Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research
at UofWI marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM "NO!"
into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a
box for ten minutes contemplation" dermer:
"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
******IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?*******
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:
"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.
From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
alert the world to animal abuse.
We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.
Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?
In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
--Marshall Dermer
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
Chris McGonnell
>HOWEDY kibo fruitcakes,
You aren't worthy of posting to r.p.d., you vicious DOG BEATER! Oh
yes, Nazi Howe, I've seen the secretly taped video of you CRUELLY
whipping a dog with your leather leash -- the video so graphic 20/20
couldn't air it when that show aired its program of Internet con men
who cheat honest people (in this case dog trainers) out of their
HARD-EARNED money and then beat the poor dogs with cruel, cruel
instruments.
HOWE'd you like it if somebody beat YOU with a baseball bat, you
DOG-ABUSING scum?
--
Chris McG.
Harming humanity since 1951.
"McGonnell, welcome to Plonksville, population: You" -- Stacia
Borzoi
news:6vp3p1p1mbqlbi8uv...@4ax.com:
Really?
I hadn't heard about this before.
Can you elaborate please?
Borzoi
IHateToSayIt...@inbox.com
Chris McGonnell wrote:
> On 3 Dec 2005 08:21:01 -0800, Dog Choker Howe wrote:
>
> > HOWEDY kibo fruitcakes,
Thank you for responding. The heelth of the WHOWEL WILD WORLD
DEPENDS on alt.religion.kibology to SAVE US from the needle.
> You aren't worthy of posting to r.p.d., you vicious DOG BEATER!
INDEEDY. You'll find the rest of the video evidence here:
http://fredhassen.neptune.com #11, fred and tim. Jerry
Howe is playin the part of fred. tim plays tim, and terri
willis plays Santos the dog bein BEATEN.
> Oh yes, Nazi Howe, I've seen the secretly taped video of you
> CRUELLY whipping a dog with your leather leash --
You'll also find Jerry Howe choking shocking and beating dogs on the
rest of the useless video evidence at http://fredhassen.neptune.com
and www.remotedogtraining.com
>the video so graphic 20/20 couldn't air it
SHAMEFOOL, AIN'T IT:
Psychoclown terri willis wrote:
Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure.
Amy lyingfrosty dahl (oakhill kennels) LIES with a
straight face and says:
"I don't beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes. For the
benefit of anyone who is in doubt, and who chooses
not to read the article (SHE'D REALLY LIKE IT IF YOU
DON'T READ IT!), there is NO mention in it of "twisting
ears (INDEED, SHE PINCHES THEM WITH SPIKES).
I would never slap a dog (SHE TEACHES PEOPLE TO
BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS TO MOTIVATE THEM).
I would never advise anyone to slap a dog (SHE'S A
PROVEN LIAR AND DOG ABUSER, do you expect
her to ADMIT THE TRUTH???).
I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever,
where slapping a dog is anything but destructive."
RIGHT. She PINCHES, not twists... and chin cuff
doesn't mean hit, it means chuck. amy lyingfrosty dahl
continues:
"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less
tractable dogs may require you to progress to striking
them more sharply.
With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'
Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the
stick. Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to
the dummy.
Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog,
Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent
that resisting your will fades in importance.
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead
of your thumb;
even get a studded collar and pinch the ear against
that
Say "fetch" while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear.
if the dog still does not open its mouth, get out the
shotshell.
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in"
> when that show aired its program of Internet con men
> who cheat honest people (in this case dog trainers) out
> of their HARD-EARNED money and then beat the poor
> dogs with cruel, cruel instruments.
We was just talkin abHOWET HOWE COME the POLICE SAR
dogs WOULDN'T FIND them three DEAD children in the trunk
of the car in Trenton, N.J. and WOULDN'T FIND Jessica Lundren
300' from her HOWES and WOULDN'T FIND Elizabeth Smart, ALL
with KNOWN STARTING POINTS, ALL EZ SIMPLE TRACKS for
ANY backyard bred untrained dog, ALL mishandled by POLICE
and SAR trainers using bribery shocking and choking.
> HOWE'd you like it if somebody beat YOU with a baseball bat,
> you DOG-ABUSING scum?
That's been tried. Didn't work, HOWEver.
> --
> Chris McG.
> Harming humanity since 1951.
> "McGonnell, welcome to Plonksville, population: You" -- Stacia
Subject: Re: Lots more working dogs videos to see
HOWEDY FRAUDreck,
fredhas...@msn.com wrote:
> At this address: http://tinyurl.com/bwdhg
We was just talkin abHOWET HOWE to use your thirty five
levels of medical grade static like stimulation in a NON
AVERSIVE manner.
> Fred Hassen's
> "No Limitations" remote dog training system
> and horses too!!!
> www.remotedogtraining.com
Date: 2004-06-14 16:25:51 PST
HOWEDY FRAUDreck,
"Sitmeanssit" <> wrote in message
news:20040611020822...@mb-m23.aol.com...
> > Here is a clip taken at a police seminar
Was they arresting you for animal abuse
or FRAUD, FRAUDreck?
> > after I was asked to see how the dog
> > would perform without the collar on.
INDEEDY, FRAUDreck. Who's side are you on?
You SHORE came HOWET lookin like a CHUMP
in that video, eh?
You took that shock collar off and your dog
wouldn't do NUTHIN you told him. You had
to repeat your "commands" and even had to
give up commanding the dog and went over
to ARGUE and FIGHT with him, just as you
told the cops THEY'D have to do if they didn't
have a nice shock collar like yours, but it wasn't
on the dog so your dog wasn't WORKIN for
the moment, eh FRAUDreck?
And a moment later you was physically
restraining your HOWETA CONTROL dog.
You've certainly HOWET done yourself, FRAUDreck.
Hey FRAUDreck? IMAGINE if you hadn't already
worked the dog for a long while on your shock
collar before removein it? You'd have had your
search party already organized, eh???
BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> I had just taken it off.
BWEEEEHAHAHAHHAHAHAAA!!!
Pretty EMBARRASSING, wasn't it.
>http://www.fredhassen.com/video/high_real/police-no_collar-high.ram
The dog DIDN'T WORK withHOWET the shock collar.
> >Fred Hassen
> >www.fredhassen.com
>
> Forgot to add that I top it off at the end by putting
> the decoy's bare hand in the dog's mouth at the end.
Oh, bye the bye FRAUDreck? That aggitator, wasn't
that your pal tom, your pal the dog catcher?
Didn't he ride over with Maddy settin on his lap?
What's the big deal with puttin the aggitator's hand
in the dog's MHOWETH, to show the dog ain't a REAL K-9?
She's his pal, ain't she, FRAUDreck. Your dog
ain't no goddamend K-9, FRAUDreck. Your dog
is a sleeve happy fearful critter that REFUSED
EVERY COMMAND soon as you took off your
SHOCK collar.
You're a FRAUD, FRAUDreck, JUST LIKE
HOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ.
Your videos PROVE it.
Here is a video from Fred which I have a few concerns
about (and maybe Fred can weigh in if he sees fit), THE
SAME "FRED" that johnny would invite to heelp his
shelter dogs learn RESPECT.
This is a video about Nero being taught to get on
a skateboard.
http://www.studioonline.com/playvideos.asp?crypt=A7E284B9ABDFCE0F
or
http://tinyurl.com/389al
In this video, the dog is constantly jerking his
head all around. I'm not SHORE why he's doing that.
If he's doing it because he is being shocked repeatedly
into getting onto that skateboard, then it is my
opinion that Fred Hassen is a dog abuser in the
extreme. As would anyone be, no matter how much
"experience" they had shocking dogs, nor how
nationally "respected" they are/were.
If, HOWEver, the dog is jerking his head all around
because he is happy and for no other reason, well,
then, never mind. I've just never seen this kind of
behavior from a dog before, so maybe Fred can
explain what would cause a dog to move his head
like that.
Here's a other:
http://tinyurl.com/2v9oh
Even your PALS the "DOG LOVERS" on the
abuse groups were HOWEtraged by those stunts.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good
of its victims, may be the most oppressive. Those
who torment us for our own good will torment us
without end, for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis.
"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC), Agamemnon.
"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action
as separate, not the wise. If any man knows one, he
enjoys the fruit of both. The level which is reached by
wisdom is attained through right action as well. He who
perceives that the two are one knows the truth."
"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.
What is the use of compulsion then? The love and
hate which are aroused by the objects of sense arise
from Nature, do not yield to them. They only obstruct
the path." Bhagavad Gita, adapted by Krishna with
permission from His FREE copy of my FREE Wits'
End Dog Training Method manual.
Force training JERRYIZES dogs, and GETS THEM DEAD.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
Subject: Re: I use an shock collar - I'm a dog abuser
HOWEDY tracy you freakin dog abusing mental case,
Tracy Doyle wrote:
> in article 1131405322.831373.71...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, Ronna at
> dogstar...@aol.com wrote on 11/7/05 5:15 PM:
> > Jeff Dege wrote:
> >> I believe that a shock from an e-collar is an aversive. That trainers who
> >> pretend that they can condition their dog to react to a shock as if it
> >> were a reward are lying to their clients or to themselves.
> > I tend to agree with you Jeff, I have asked ecollar trainers to give an
> > example of how they use the ecollar as a "reward" and have yet to get a
> > clear answer even from people who have attended Fred H's seminars.
>
> Here's an article which explains very well how to build a positive
> association with a low-level stim (which is NOT at all painful, BTW,
> nor even unpleasant):
HOWE COME do you suppose your own dogs have been in the
behavior clinic at Purdue for OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE DISORDERS?
> http://www.sitmeanssit.com/articles/article_attention_heeling.htm
HOWE COME do you suppose FRAUDreck doesn't post here nomore?
> This is one trainer
FRAUDreck is a coward and dog abuser.
> and one method for one behavior,
ALL temperament and behavior problems are the same same.
> so it certainly doesn't cover the entire topic,
Well YES, it DOES. It covers the REASON you bums CANNOT
train your dogs despite your shock collars.
> but it's a good start.
INDEEDY.
> Regards,
You're a dog abusing mental case.
> Tracy
Here's FRAUDRECK gettin JERRYIZED again:
Subject: "Dog Training For The Real World" - A Joke, By FRAUDreck
hassan.
"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," wm koehler.
"Dog Training For The Real World" -
A Joke,
By FRAUDreck hassan.
BWWWAAHAHAHAAAA!!!
Date: 2002-03-02 16:17:51 PST
Hello People,
Here's our self professed expert fraudreck
showing his dog training bloomers:
>From: FREDERICK HASSEN (FHAS...@webtv.net)
>Date: 1999/09/01
> Here is my latest article to Dog Sport Magazine,
> which will appear next month.
Is this the one teaching us to put holes in the collar
to make it fit little doggies?
> Teaching "attention" heeling with an electronic collar.
This is ridiculous. fraudreck is going to hurt the dog every time
it looks away from him and think he's trained his dog to adore
him.
It's all for show, the dog HATES the training and has
no choice, as it should be, if the dog is trained properly,
but not by hurting him every time he doesn't look at you
as fraudreck teaches.
> In this article, I will go over some steps in
> teaching 'attention' heeling with an electronic collar.
An exercise in futility, strictly to stroke the ego
of the alphalpha duminance "trainer."
> If you are not familiar with an electronic collar,
> or it's operation, I would suggest that you attend
> a Tritronics seminar, or one given by someone
> off of their pro-staff.
Yeah, a salesman. Like you, fraudreck.
>People are constantly wondering how you can
>teach stuff like this in its infancy stages
"Infancy stages?" Dog lovers have been
BURNING dogs for thirty years.
> without a negative association to the electric collar.
Oh. That's EZ. You can't. Dogs don't LIKE
being shocked, fraudreck.
> I want to make it clear that most of the high-tech
> collars that Tritronics makes are adjustable to suit
> the dog's temperament.
And I want to make it clear that it doesn't
matter HOWE MUCH you HURT and INTIMIDATE,
any pain fear or force in training is inappropriate
and abusive.
> It can be adjusted lower than most dogs can even perceive.
So that means you can't use it. Big deal.
Turn it on and the dog will shit and piss
himself, fraudreck.
You're quite the salesman if you think
shutting off the juice and telling us the
collar don't hurt is going to make us
think that turning it on and burning the
dog till his learns to shut it off is going
to be appreciated by our dogs and not
make them angry.
> The easiest way to start this, is to kneel
> down next to the dog with a food treat in
> your mouth.
Because the dog would have no desire to look at you otherwise.
> When the dog is looking away, lightly tap him with the collar
You mean shock him if he looks away from you, fraudreck.
> until he looks at you,
And what do you suppose the dog is gonna think?
You got that cookie and you're hurting him. Means
to me, I got to take that cookie outta your yap and
throw you to the ground and growl into your throat
and bite you on your ear till you smarten the heel
up, fraudreck.
That's what it would mean to me if I was a dog
an you was pullin that crap on me.
> then give him the hotdog.
I wouldn't give you the chance, and I wouldn't
take it when offered. I'd rip you off for it or ignore
it and bite you if you forced it on me.
> If you have a problem with the dog taking food
> from your mouth,
Then you should rethink what you've been doing
to him under the disguise of training.
> or he's a little rough,
That's what should be worked on long before hurting the dog for
not adoring the goddamned weenie hangin outta your yap.
> you can put your hand in front of your mouth
> with the hotdog or treat in it.
To protect your face from the dog you've been shocking.
> The purpose of the kneeling, is that it simplifies
> the dog looking at you at this early stage---since
> you are down to his level.
Because you can't entice the dog to be interested
in you because you HURT him. That hot dog isn't
YOU, that hot dog might as well be a garbage can,
and you might as well be a fire hydrant next to it.
> I would not give any command at this point. The
> reason for no command, is that the dog does not
> understand the collar yet, and has not had enough
> repetitions to link the "tapping" to the treat.
The shock, fraudreck. You think the semantics are
important to the dog?
> We are trying to elicit from the dog, the motion
> of turning to look up at you when he feels the tap.
When you shock him you want him to think of taking
a weenie outta your mouth.
Better lock your dog in his crate when you entertain, fraudreck.
> In other words, 'tap' means '
SHOCK. That's what you do every time the dog
takes ITS eyes off you.
> look up at me cause there is food up here',
Right, and that shock is just cause he didn't look at the weenies.
> and then you will verify it every time.
You mean you'll SHOCK him every
time he looks away from your weenie.
> If the dog is not looking at you, continue
> the tapping (low level 'nicks' of the collar
> are preferable).
Can't you say SHOCK, fraudreck?
That's HOWE COME you refuse to do
my dual shock collar challenge, fraudreck.
LET'S SEE. Put up or shut up.
>Only the act of looking up at you, will make the 'nicks' cease,
Let's see you accept my dual shock collar challenge,
you lying dog abusing Thug. Go for it fraudreck, you'll
shut me up in one fell swoop.
YOU CAN'T. You're a liar and I've caught you lying.
> and the dog will be instantly rewarded with the treat.
Yeah? I got a $1000.00 dollar cash treat, a seminar
I'll organize for you, and I'll sell and train for you for
six months and I'll EAT MY HAT at the seminar,
fraudreck.
GO FOR IT, you miserable coward
blowhard dog abusing lying Thug.
Go for it.
You can't, cause you'll shock yourself,
and that would make you SHY fraudreck.
Get the heel outta here.
> You can slowly raise yourself from the kneeling position,
Stay on your knees, fraudreck. It becomes you.
> until the dog still associates the 'nick' with
> looking at you while you are standing, then
> you can cease the kneeling altogether.
Kinda like I stay on you bums till you get the heel outtat here?
> I would then start challenging the dog by 'nicking'
> at various times when he is not expecting it,
I see. You want the weenie to be the fall guy?
BWWAAAAHAHAHAAA!!!
The dog knows YOU are the bum with the finger
on the big red button marked BURN.
> and seeing that he knows to look up at you to shut off the 'nick',
HOWE COME you can't find the word BURN, fraudreck?
> and get his treat.
For looking at your weenie.
>????Another good way to introduce this is to
>put the dog's dry food kibbles that are going
>to be his allowance at that meal, and take
>him for a walk. You can periodically tap him
>along the way, and as he looks up at you,
>give him a portion until he has had all of his
>meals worth.
Well, that's a lot of shocking I'd say. No wonder
fraudreck won't wear the same collar the dog is
wearing.
> He will soon be looking forward to the tapping.
Well, does that mean you'll accept my $1000.00
and the rest of my contract for demonstrating your
shock collar by wearing it the same as the dog gets, FRAUDRECK?
> Because of the distraction outside, you may find
> yourself going up a few notches because of the
> added excitement of the outside environment.
INDEED??? Imagine that when you're wearing the
same collar the dog is, you miserable coward lying
dog abusing Thug. Get the heel outta here.
> The levelthat was working in the house, may be
> completely ineffective outside, so you have to adjust
> accordingly.
EXACTLY. That's HOWE COME you won't accept
my challenges you lying dog abusing Thug coward.
> When your dog starts showing that he understands the tapping,
SHOCK, fraudreck. Call a spade a spade. Prove
you're not a LIAR and a DOG ABUSER by accepting
my dual shock collar challenge or get outta this business.
> and is looking up when it occurs on a consistent basis,
Like you and your pals call for killfiling Jerry, hmm?
> I would then overlay the "heel" or "foos", or whatever
> command at that time. You do not want the dog thinking
> that "heel" means "look around and try to figure out with
> that strange tapping is".
Right. And that's when my HIGH STAKES challenge
comes into effect.
That's when you an me cross paths and we stop to
chit chat, and I whack you out while your NATIONAL
CHUMPION ATTACK DOG Maddy refuses to look at
me, and I take her to my HOWES, never to be HURT
again, fraudreck.
> The beauty of the collar is that you can completely
> disassociate yourself from the tapping, and when
> the dog is confused-----
You THINK so. The dog knows you got
that button, fraudreck.
You're a liar.
> rather than a leash tug,
You mean CHOKE the dog, FRAUDreck.
Don't insult our intelligence or that of the dog you
can't outwit or you'd never NEED to HURT him from
jump street.
> you can happily get his attention back to you
> with whatever body language is needed.
A weenie and a shock are required fraudreck, and you know it.
> Your dog will soon know that the tapping is not
> just a random act,
The dog will know that YOU are intentionally BURNING him.
> and that he, and he alone is responsible for controlling it.
The dog ain't stupid, frauddie.
> The timing that you can achieve with the collar is virtually
> unmatched in other methods.
?
Bunk.
You HURT dogs cause you're not bright enough
to OUTWIT them or you wouldn't NEED to HURT
them in the first place.
You like to say the SHOCK COLLAR doesn't HURT
fraudreck, but I call you a liar and you refuse to accept
my dual shock collar to prove you ain't.
You're outta gas.
> Your dog has now had nothing but a pleasant
> beginning association with the electronic collar.
You think so? You won't wear the same collar, fraudreck.
>You will soon see that dog's tail wagging like crazy
> when he feels that tap.
THAT'S ANXIETY.
Show us. You're always shootin your mouth of about
SHOWIN us. Go ahead, make my day you miserable
doubletalker.
> We now want to establish habit with that behavior.
You mean moore shocking.
> The dog now has a choice,
Is that so, fraudreck? You're so childlike I could just hug you.
> and will learn more responsibility with his behavior.
Yes, as soon as you demonstrate HOWE gently
you train these dogs.
> Also, I would further add learning to this by establishing
> the dog maintain the 'heel' position while you are stationary.
> In other words, while standing completely still, you should
> be able to say "heel" and the dog's head come right up into
> looking at you.
Yeah, as he'll be standing next to me in front of that fence
with the three barking dogs behind it, while we chit chat about
attack dog training, and I walk off with your national association
of protection dogs champion a couple years running, as my dog,
never to be BURNED again, fraudreck.
Put your dog on the line, and I'll match it with my butt. Let's
SEE.
> You may not be moving,
NOT A BREATH.
> but it's still a 'heel' position.
The only thing that'll be moving are the dogs
behind me and my fist when I take a backhander
at you.
> As the dog looks away, tap him with the collar
You mean SHOCK.
> until he's back into position,
That won't be necessary or allowed in this demo.
Nothing can be said after you ask Maddy to sit at
heel while you chit chat with Jerry.
> then shut the tapping off and immediately replace
> it with 'good heel'.
You've already done that thousands of times, that's
HOWE COME I'll stake my ass on humiliating you
and winning your dog and puttin you outta business
and changing the name of your show from "sit means
sit" to "Sit, GOOD BOY, NICE DOG, that's a GOOD FELLA!"
> If he turns away, discontinue the praise, apply the tapping
SHOCKING, fraudreck. Get honest with yourself.
> and praise verbally with a 'good heel' as he comes back.
After the fact, fraudreck? If you can't punish AFTER, you can't
PRAISE, after, cause that would be INCONSISTENT and
CONTRAWISE, wouldn't it, if your THEORY is correct...and it ain't.
> This will continue while walking. Remember that
> the collar is doing alot of work for you,
SHOCKING.
> so it is totally inappropriate for you to ever have
> to raise your voice
You mean in FRUSTRATION, fraudreck?
> while using an electronic collar.
You mean while SHOCKING your dog.
> Yelling should not have more meaning of a command,
> than it would in a regular tone.
Unless your batteries wear out suddenly, as they tend to do.
> The electronic collar gives us the unique ability of raising the
>level of the collar to match the situation,
To HURT the dogs MOORE, as NEEDED.
Perhaps that's HOWE COME you refuse
my dual shock collar challenge, fraudreck.
> while we remain the good guy at all times.
You really do think the dog is less intelligent than you are?
> This is a good initiation to the electric collar. ?
Oh, is that so? You didn't mention what happens
when the dog shits and piss himself and runs away.
Did you FORGET to mention that part, fraudreck?
> You can purchase back orders of "Dog Sport"
> for other articles on conditioning with the collar.
And you'll find that our pal fraudreck is conditioning the dog
to be totally dependent on the shock collar against all the
experts advice. But it cinches up sales for him and he likes that.
>FRED HASSEN
>"SIT MEANS SIT" Internet talkshow host
>http://www.lovemypets.com/sitmeanssit
>Sit Means Sit Dog Training (702-877-4581)
> When your dog doesn't know:
> "Sit from Shinola"
Got any response, fraudreck? j;~)
IHateToSayIt...@inbox.com
INDEEDY.
> I hadn't heard about this before.
THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard is callin
on alt.religion.kibology to HEELP SAVE US!
> Can you elaborate please?
For SHORE!~
> Borzoi
Here's something your mumzie would like:
Here's some excerpts from our force fetch
page on k9web your pal cindy "don't let the dog
SCREAM" mooreon threatened to sue us for
infringement for discussing. I'm looking forward
to having her demonstrate these advanced
techniques in front of a criminal judge and jury
for felony animal abuse.
"Another excellent and more recent resource is
the Tritronics Retrieving Manual Retriever
Training by Jim and Phyllis Dobbs and Alice
Woodyard, which despite its association with
the Tritronics electronic collars has many excellent
descriptions of training techniques that do not use
the collar, including an overview of what they also
term
the "conditioned retrieve." (This is not a promotion or
condemnation of electronic collars; merely a note that
the Retriever Training book is useful for the person
without an electronic collar as well.)
THE FORCE FETCH
Alright! Now you are (finally) ready to force
fetch your dog. I repeat, you want to have an
experienced person help you out, someone
who has already force fetched her own dogs
whether for obedience or field.
This step in the training entails what is termed
avoidance behavior. In a nutshell, the dog is
taught how to "turn off" a negative stimulus.
He is carefully taught that he has complete
control over it.
This is a very effective way of teaching, but
does require a more astute sense of timing
than some other training methods and is very
difficult for some people to do, for a variety of
reasons.
However, if the dog properly knows HOLD at
this point, it's easily done with a minimum of
fuss.
Return to your quiet starting place, with the
dog on a collar and leash in front of you,
sitting quietly. Instead of opening his mouth
as you have been for the HOLD, put your hand
through the dog's collar (to hold
him steady) and with your thumb and forefinger
pinch the tip of his ears and say TAKE IT (or
FETCH, or whatever you want)
Watch his mouth closely -- the moment he
opens his mouth, pop that dumbbell in, let go
of his ear but not the collar, and PRAISE
PRAISE PRAISE.
Do this three or four times per session.
When he is opening his mouth in anticipation
of the dumbbell, the next step is to hold the
dumbbell just past his lips. This next step is
for him to move his head forward that inch (or
half inch) necessary to get the dumbbell. At
this point, he has a pretty good notion that
getting that darned thing into his
mouth is the way to turn off the ear pinch.
Most dogs will lean forward and get it. That's
his second milestone! Praise, praise, praise
and repeat three or four times this session.
Remember, I said these sessions were no
more than 5 minutes or so each. That's still
true.
Gradually extend the distance so he has to
reach further to get it. Now here is where a
few subtleties come into play. It's not enough
for him to merely reach out and grab it. You
want him to commit to getting it. You want him
to be intent on getting it. If he sort of
limply reaches over and gets it, that's
not what you want. If you pinch him but have
to drag him toward the dumbbell, that's not
what you want either. We're back to the
visualization. What do you want him to do?
You want him to, if necessary, bust
through just about anything to get that
dumbbell. So hold on to that collar until you
feel him pulling out of it to get that. That's
his commitment.
You want to say TAKE IT and
have him just about explode out to get
the dumbbell. As you get further along in
this, you will release him when he's made a
good commitment -- this will help shape a
speedy response nicely.
I think you can see why it helps to have an
experienced person around when you are
doing this!
It can be difficult to keep all these
things in mind when you are actually
sitting there with a dog in your hands.
About the ear pinch: You must keep the
pressure up until the instant he has the
dumbbell securely in his mouth. Many people
have problems getting the pinch
right, either they do not pinch enough, or
they have a very stoic dog in which case case
a collar may be needed to help make the pinch
more effective.
Also some dogs are screamers,
and if they find that they can stop the
pinching by screaming, they've learned
the avoidance technique just fine -- but not
with the behavior you had in mind!
Don't let your dog scream. Use your hand to
hold his muzzle closed and tell him to quit
moaning. Some dogs will collapse into a heap.
Don't let them do that, that's why your hand
is in the collar.
Hold them up and get them back into a sitting
position.
What your dog is doing is trying to find other
ways of avoiding the ear pinch.
You need to be firm and consistent and
demonstrate that getting the dumbbell is the
only means of avoidance.
Remember to keep him under control. When
he gets that dumbbell in his mouth, pull him
gently around back to you and sit him back
down. You may in fact want to sit him at your
side in the heel position (whether or not he
actually knows the heel position), hold the
dumbbell in front of him, command him
to take it and then pull him back to a front
or finish position as you wish. The pattern
will do him good later.
The next major milestone is putting the
dumbbell on the ground for him to pick up. For
many dogs this can be a big deal and may be
difficult. Set the dumbbell on the ground just
in front of them, with your hand on
the dumbbell.
He may not reach for it, he may
refuse -- keep up the ear pressure until he
finally picks it up. If he really doesn't seem
to understand this, then break this down into
an intermediate step where you
hold the dumbbell, but about 1/2 way between
the ground and his mouth.
Once he's picked the dumbbell off the ground,
that's a major milestone and you are just
about home free.
As before slowly place the dumbbell further
away on the ground in front of him. Make sure
he is pulling out of your hold on the collar
before you let him pick the dumbbell up. If he
drops the dumbbell from this point on, you
will get control of him (put him in a
sit with a firm hold on his collar) and pinch
him back to the dumbbell -- he can pick it up
now so there is no need for you to put it in
his mouth any more. HE is the one responsible
for getting it.
When he is reliably picking up the dumbbell a
few feet from you, then you can stop using the
pinch at the beginning of the exercise.
You will instead reserve it for when he drops
the dumbbell or refuses to pick it up, etc. So
for example, you might go out, place the
dumbbell 6 feet away, put the long lead on
him, tell him to take it.
Let's say he hesitates and doesn't go out.
Then you pinch, force him to commit, send
him to the dumbbell. Let's say he goes and
gets it, but starts playing with it. Pull him in,
and if he hasn't already dropped the dumbbell,
take it out of his mouth, put it back where it
was, and pinch him to it.
There is one last problem you need to watch
for. Many dogs, especially retrievers, will
start pouncing on the dumbbell once they are
able to run out a few steps to it before
picking it up.
So transition to this point with a long cotton
lead about 20-30 feet long. With this you can
spin him round the moment he scoops up the
dumbbell, teaching him that he cannot play
with it.
If your dog drops the dumbbell, use the lead
to pull him back to you (do not let him try to
pick it up), and pinch him back to it. the
basic rule of thumb is that if he drops it, he
will be pinched back to it regardless.
Thoughts to Consider
Force fetching is never completely done, per
se (as with any exercise taught to a dog). You
may need to do a refresher course when it's
something new to pick up, or if it's something
disgusting (like a very dead bird) to pick up.
He may also start to get lazy,
you need to keep an eye on him. You may also
realize you omitted some step in training him
that shows up later so you will have to go
back and fix it.
But you should also take care to make sure he
doesn't forget any of these hard-earned
lessons! Make him carry things for you. He can
carry his own ball out to the park. He can
carry his own utility articles to the
ring. He can help you carry a light bag of
groceries into the house. He can help you
carry firewood. They will just love this, and
it's a good way to keep the talents honed. Use
it!" cindy title moore.
And THAT'S HOWE COME sindy SADIST
MOOREON doesbn't post here abHOWETS
noMOORE.
Kevin S. Wilson
wrote:
<snip raving lunacy>
Who drug this loon into ARK again?
IHateToSayIt...@inbox.com
The Amazing Puppy Wizard JUST SEZ "NO!" to drugs:
HOWEDY jeff,
THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard is BEGGIN
alt.religion.kibology to enter the dog trainin discussions:
"Jeff Dege" <jd...@jdege.visi.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.12.03....@jdege.visi.com...
> On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 11:31:43 -0500, Melinda Shore wrote:
>
>> In article <pan.2005.12.03....@jdege.visi.com>,
>> Jeff Dege <jd...@jdege.visi.com> wrote:
>>>But if you let an aggressive dog run loose in a rural area, someone is
>>>going to shoot him. And will be perfectly justified in doing so.
>>
>> Sometimes. I like to think that people use guns as a last
>> resort, not a first, but I really, really hate killing
>> animals myself and I tend to think of guns as tools rather
>> than as romantic partners. Whether or not shooting a loose
>> dog is "perfectly justified" depends things like whether or
>> not the dog is an actual threat to person or property,
>> whether or not the owner has a history of irresponsibility
>> regarding the dog, and so on.
>>
>> Around here, problem dogs get shot, pet dogs that get loose
>> on rare occasion are returned to their owners.
>
> As it should be.
>
> The problem is that a lot of people who have dogs who seem perfectly
> well-behaved in the yard don't know that their dogs chase livestock when
> they're out on a wander.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
You punk thug coward mental cases can't even train your
own dogs DESPITE your pronged spiked pinch choke and shock
collars. REMEMBER jeff, you freakin halfwit?
Isn't that the same Jeff Dege who can't train
his own dog not to attack innocent defenseless
dumb critters despite his shock collar and
perfect come command?:
From: Jeff Dege <j...@jdege.visi.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:58:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Squirrell chasing / Prey drive !!!!
On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:06:57 -0400, buzzsaw wrote:
> A Loose Leash !?! Are you kidding me ... this
> dog is ready to go and the site of a squirell he
> is gone loose leash, tight leash, no leash.
> He can see them clear as far as 5 blocks,
> in fact when a leaf blows he is ready to bounce.
> He sees a empty water bottle, or a sprinkle head
> on the grass as approaching he is tensing up
> because it just may be rocky the squirell.
> I think the e collar is appropiate here?
> Although I never used one on him.
Won't make any difference.
I've been using an e-collar with my JRT, and it's
worked wonders for his recall. But the one time
he bolted after something small and furry, he paid
no attention to the collar until after he'd brought
it to bay.
Jeff Dege.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
"Mary Healey" <mhhe...@iastate.edu> wrote in message
news:Xns972058AD4D240a...@130.133.1.4...
> "Deltones" <vibr...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1133497913.069709.297370
> @g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
>> After your defense of "Limited" choking, what would be the point? Where
>> I come from, choking is choking.
>
> A martingale collar *prevents* choking by limiting the extent to which the
> collar can be tightened.
>
>> Oh, what the hell. Check out a thread started around Nov 23 called
>> "Help with a Nuerotic Hound..." where I wonder if you guys are talking
>> about dogs or Woody Allen's pharmacy. I'll stick with praises and noise
>> distraction to train my dog, thank you.
>
> If your dog is like most normal dogs, praise and noise distraction may be
> sufficient. If your dog is not normal, medication may be appropriate.
>
> I'm still asking for 5 original posts from people here at least 5 years to
> support your initial contention. You're 0 for 2, so far.
HOWEDY Borzoi,
Borzoi wrote:
> Chris McGonnell <sme...@NOkey-net.net> wrote in
> news:6vp3p1p1mbqlbi8uv...@4ax.com:
>
> > On 3 Dec 2005 08:21:01 -0800, Dog Choker Howe wrote:
> >
> >>HOWEDY kibo fruitcakes,
> >
> > You aren't worthy of posting to r.p.d., you vicious DOG BEATER! Oh
> > yes, Nazi Howe, I've seen the secretly taped video of you CRUELLY
> > whipping a dog with your leather leash -- the video so graphic 20/20
> > couldn't air it when that show aired its program of Internet con men
> > who cheat honest people (in this case dog trainers) out of their
> > HARD-EARNED money and then beat the poor dogs with cruel, cruel
> > instruments.
> >
> > HOWE'd you like it if somebody beat YOU with a baseball bat, you
> > DOG-ABUSING scum?
> >
> > --
> > Chris McG.
> > Harming humanity since 1951.
> > "McGonnell, welcome to Plonksville, population: You" -- Stacia
> >
>
> Really?
INDEEDY.
> Can you elaborate please?
For SHORE!~
> Borzoi
THE FORCE FETCH
Thoughts to Consider
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
unsurrea...@yahoo.com
IHateToSayIt...@Inbox.Com wrote:
> HOWEDY kevin,
>
> Kevin S. Wilson wrote:
> > On 3 Dec 2005 12:49:47 -0800, IHateToSayIt...@Inbox.Com
> > wrote:
> >
> > <snip raving lunacy>
> >
> > Who drug this loon into ARK again?
>
> The Amazing Puppy Wizard JUST SEZ "NO!" to drugs:
You better start saying "YES!" - at the very least they can't make you
any more insane or ignorant than you already are!
Benny Hinn
I pray for Mr. Howe.
I pray that he does not cause harm to dogs.
We have had many dogs living on our property in Texas and Florida.
We have fond memories of our Dobermans and Cocker Spaniels.
Dobermans have wonderful social skills BTW.
I pray also that you all accept Jesus into your hearts.
Benny
Mark Edwards
No cluons were harmed when "Benny Hinn" <bananah...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>I pray also that you all accept Jesus into your hearts.
Because if you accept Him into your gall bladder, YOU'RE GONNA
DIE!!!!!
Which reminds me, if you choose to accept Jesus into any of your body
parts, what is the safeword?
Mark-going-to-hell-Edwards
--
Proof of Sanity Forged Upon Request
Sharon
> DIE!!!!!
>
> Which reminds me, if you choose to accept Jesus into any of your body
> parts, what is the safeword?
Spit take!
Monroe, of course...
wrote:
> [snip dog training]
>
> No cluons were harmed when "Benny Hinn" <bananah...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >I pray also that you all accept Jesus into your hearts.
>
> Because if you accept Him into your gall bladder, YOU'RE GONNA
> DIE!!!!!
>
> Which reminds me, if you choose to accept Jesus into any of your body
> parts, what is the safeword?
"Eucharist"
> Mark-going-to-hell-Edwards
You're in splendid company!
--
Cheese in the corner with a mile long beard
Bacon blue-bread dog eared Bacon blue-bread dog eared
I may be hungry but I sure ain't weird
ThePupp...@animail.net
Or would you PREFER to be addressed as Pastor or Reverend?
Benny Hinn wrote:
> unsurrea...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > IHateToSayIt...@Inbox.Com wrote:
> > > HOWEDY kevin,
> > >
> > > Kevin S. Wilson wrote:
> > > > On 3 Dec 2005 12:49:47 -0800, IHateToSayIt...@Inbox.Com
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > <snip raving lunacy>
> > > >
> > > > Who drug this loon into ARK again?
> > >
> > > The Amazing Puppy Wizard JUST SEZ "NO!" to drugs:
> >
> > You better start saying "YES!" - at the very least they can't
> > make you any more insane or ignorant than you already are!
The Amazing Puppy Wizard can be made, but HE AIN'T EZ.
> I pray for Mr. Howe.
Thank you, Benny! And G-D BLESS YOU an yours, Benny!
The Amazing Puppy Wizard PREYS for you too, rememberin
those little scandals you went through a while back gettin
bagged for faked heelin an a little scuffle with someWON'S
irate husband or sumpthin...
> I pray that he does not cause harm to dogs.
Got some bad news for ya, Benny. It's the SAME SAME dog lovers
who DON'T JERK CHOKE SHOCK MUTILATE and MURDER innocent
defenseless dumb critters who bagged you for fraud and nailed J.H.
Christ, to boot.
> We have had many dogs living on our property in Texas and Florida.
Texas an Florida are run by the Bush Administration, Benny.
They're probably HOWET to get you too, bye the bye...
> We have fond memories of our Dobermans and Cocker Spaniels.
INDEED?
"He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are
stored; He hath loosed the fateful lightning of his terrible swift
sword: His truth is marching on. Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! ...
crush the serpent with his heel Since God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
> Dobermans have wonderful social skills BTW.
But of curse. They're not RUDE like so many other breeds.
> I pray also that you all accept Jesus into your hearts.
DONE, Benny! DONE!
ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
You GET The Critter You TRAINED
A DOG Is A Dog;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES;
As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer.
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
ALL Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING
Jer 21 And unto this people thou shalt say,
Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I set before
you The Way Of Life, And The Way Of Death.
2Ki 19:6 And Isaiah said unto them, Thus
shall ye say to your master, Thus saith
the LORD, Be not afraid of the words which
thou hast heard, with which the servants of
the king of Assyria have blasphemed me.
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
I came not so send peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against
his father, and the daughter against her mother
, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.
The Puppy Prophet <{); ~ ) >
> Benny
And Happy HOWElidays to you an yours, Benny.
HOWEDY steevie,
You PASSED the TEST~!
Kindly fill HOWET your own mental heelth case history and join the
kennel
club:
<stevet...@usfamily.net> wrote in message
news:1133318292....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I successfully brushed him tonight so that is no longer an issue.
> Thanks for that!
>
> One problem with him stopping is that the collar he has can slip off if
> he wants to stop. Should I get a "choke" collar?
>
> Steve
stevet...@usfamily.net wrote:
> Thanks for the nice non-comercial reply! The advice about brushing is
> good and I will try that. As far as the walk goes. The dog simple stops
> and does not move without being dragged by its collar (which I did try
> for a short distance). It didn't seem to make much of a difference
> however. I would like to reward good behavior as well as stop bad
> behavior. But I am not sure what to reward. If he is just walking with
> me, how do I reward that?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
HOWEDY Rosemary,
Rosemary wrote:
> test
In a effort to be FAIR The Amazing Puppy Wizard requests the following
posters be EXXXEMPT from any further testing as they've yet to
stabilize
on their anti psychotic medications some of them even after twenty
years
on lithium and zolofft xanax and other anti psychotic medications.
Subject: Re: A few issues...MenTal List
MENTAL ILLNESS IN RPD*
Mental illness is a public issue in the dog newsgroups.
People are always running around calling other people
mentally ill and diagnosing their illnesses. I think
it's only fair that we have an accurate list of who
is and who isn't mentally ill, so that we can avoid
any misunderstandings and promote group harmony.
This list is strictly for group harmony purposes.
=======================================
HOWEDY Soup,
Thanks Soup.
You'd think your list got 'm covered, Soup to NUTS.
But you ain't.
There's STILL a few loose SCREWBALLS missin.
For starters, you forgot the cutters and
sexual sadists, Soup.
Look up susan frazier and looney toons aka laura arlov.
<YOUR NAME GOES HERE>
(please proudly add your name and the drugs/disorders specific
to you, if you are also mentally ill). If we all come forward,
we can help each other with our problems. Remember, mental illness
is nothing to be ashamed of. It's not your fault if you have a
defective brain which may cause you to act like an extreme hypocrite
and/or idiot and/or robot without your being aware of it).
Also, please notify us if you are *not* mentally ill, and have
been added to this by mistake, so we can make our corrections
and remove you from the crazy person list.
===========================================
WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder
(manic-depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of
Zoloft every day. I, also, care about dogs and use this
forum to learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever to post
such sh*t, I would hope that every other reader of this
group would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."
Lynn K.
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
-----------------------------------------
Here's the rHOWEndup:
Kelly/ severe OCD, ADD, major depression with culprit
psychotic features, panic and more. Coming forward so that
others like her will have the strength to do the same. Like
Charlie Wilkes, she is one of our most entertraining regulars
Here, kelly/culprit talks to Mustang Sally about her mental
illness/crazy problems. Sally is being rude and condescending
(as usual) and trying to make kelly/culprit feel bad for being
crazy, aka wacked in the head
culprit standing up for herself against rude and condescending
Mustang Sally -----------------------------------------------
well i wouldn't consider myself mentally healthy. though i'll
refrain from calling myself ill if it makes you feel better.
and no, ADD is not the major problem, i certainly know that, i
just mentioned it because of the impulsivity issues.
i wasn't trying to imply i'm disabled by it.
but i stand by the fact that OCD is an illness, major
depression with psychotic features certainly is, panic
disorder is too. and the other stuff just makes it all the
more fun.
i don't wallow in it. i'm just now learning to accept it,
because ignoring it wasn't working out too well. i need to do
that to make changes to my life so that i can become healthy.
and you say you're not trying to be condescending, but you're
doing it again. what i read was, (my paraphrasing) "people
who think they're mentally ill are wallowing in their
disabilities and letting them consume their life" you come
across as though you would be able to handle any of these
illnesses, and anyone who can't is just copping out.
well we're all different. and i don't accept your idea that i
would have a more productive life if i denied my problems.
i tried it for years, and believe me, it didn't work very
well.
-kelly --------------------------------------------
From: culprit (culp...@flashmail.com) Subject: Re: another
eevil pit bull story Date: 2003-10-08 08:47:43 PST
"Gwen Watson" <g...@ig.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:3F842E58...@ig.utexas.edu...
> Yep there it is NAMI. And yes ADHD or ADD or considered as a
> mental illness in which one can apply for many different
> things even in the work force in which they are suppose to
> accomodate you to help improve your condition.
> But I don't care to go there so I am one of those untreated
> ADHD people in the world. Whatever I am nearly 50 and have
> gotten along just fine. Or so I feel fulfilled.
yeah, i'm pretty sure i could qualify for all sorts of
disability stuff (the OCD and ADD are just the tip of my
iceberg). but i don't. i know i can function well enough to
do my job, i'll leave the benefits for those that really need
them.
mine is mostly a social impairment. go figure. :-)
-kelly
From: sighthounds etc. (greypigho...@ncweb.com) Subject: Re:
another eevil pit bull story Date: 2003-10-08 09:12:56 PST
On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 10:33:44 -0500, Gwen Watson
<g...@ig.utexas.edu>
wrote:
>culprit wrote:
>> "sighthounds etc." <greypigho...@ncweb.com> wrote in
>> message news:f8b8ov46ctu1ds18o...@4ax.com...
>> > ADD and OCD are mental illnesses?
>> oh, BTW...
http://www.nami.org/Content/NavigationMenu/Inform_Yourself/Abou
t_M ental_Illness/About_Mental_Illness.htm
>> -kelly
>Yep there it is NAMI. And yes ADHD or ADD or considered as a
>mental illness in which one can apply for many different
>things even in the work force in which they are suppose to
>accomodate you to help improve your condition.
>But I don't care to go there so I am one of those untreated
>ADHD people in the world. Whatever I am nearly 50 and have
>gotten along just fine. Or so I feel fulfilled.
I guess this is just one of those instances in which I feel
that the US is turning into a nation of victims. And please,
don't anybody jump all over me, because I am not talking about
anyone personally. Everything seems to be a compensatable (not
sure if that's actually a word) disability. If 3/4 of the
people are physically disabled or mentally ill, what's
'normal'?
Terrible parents, painful childhoods, physical illnesses,
psychological problems, etc. are all part of who a person is,
and therefore how s/he sees the world and interacts in it. But
life isn't about who you are and what you've got, it's what
you do with it. For me anyway, the more I think of myself as
partially disabled, the more I am that way.
Sorry, I don't mean to sound like Dr. Phil.
Mustang Sally
---------------------
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered as
assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter for a
while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute to
that problem," Mustang Sally.
From: Sunni12 (sunn...@aol.com)
Subject: I am
Newsgroups: alt.support.depression
Date: 1998/12/02
a major bitch today
-Sunny
---------------
From: Sunni12 (sunn...@aol.com)
Subject: Re: got a question - how long before I'm an EX-cutter?
Newsgroups: alt.support.depression
Date: 1998/11/30
> I mean, I haven't cut since June. But am I a cutter
> or an ex-cutter now?
> And how long before I am an ex-cutter? anyone
> got any answers?
> I still get sort-of cutting urges, but I haven't had
> 'em very strongly.Just sort of vague thoughts in
> my head. But I think that's going to happen forever.
> Kind of like alcoholics who recover.
> I know that the urge will come back at times of stress,
> but I don't have to do it.
>so, when am I an ex-cutter?
Its been about 9 months since I last cut.
I consider myself a recovering self injurer.
I still get the urge at times.
And like an alcoholic, i could easily slide.
So, Im proud of me for being in recovery from cutting....
And I'm proud of you Laz for being in recovery
and Im proud of everyone else resisting the temptation.
Love, hope and caring to yall all
-Sunny
---------------
From: Sunni12 (sunn...@aol.com)
Subject: Re: is it self injury if:
Newsgroups: alt.support.depression
Date: 1998/12/03
>you pick at scabs and watch them bleed...
>you pick at hangnails and make them bleed...
>you pick at calluses on your feet until they bleed....
>you poke blisters making them bleed....
I dont know.
I wonder myself.
I do the same thing.
Im a self injurer and an obsessive compulsive.
I always thought it was picking from my OCD.
-Sunny
----------------
From: Sunni12 (sunn...@aol.com)
Subject: Re: I wish I was........
Newsgroups: alt.support.depression
Date: 1998/12/05
> sunn...@aol.com (Sunni12) wrote:
>> important
>> needed
>> cared about
>> loved
>> wanted
>> -Sunny
>You are all those things, Sunny...& more.
>But I'll give you a few more cyberhugs, anyway...
>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{SUNNY}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
>Mary
Thanks. That was a really bad day when I wrote it.
Much better now.
Thanks
Sunny
who should do something about her PMS
Here's laura MURDERIN her own DEAD DOG Chewie
and gettin her cookies off gettin pushed arHOWEND
by her S.O.:
(Oh, an pardon The Amazing Puppy Wizard for TOP
POSTIN, Soup. It's NOT a symptom of dominance
HOWEver, it's MOORE like laziness.)
Sexual Abuse And Dog Training Go
Together Like A Child And Paddle
From: polara (lar...@muchomail.com)
Subject: Was: Girls' stirrings, now: Mother's doubts
Newsgroups: soc.sexuality.spanking
Date: 2004-04-13 06:51:18 PST
in a message responding to Polara's answer to Paul Mera's
question about spanko girls' fantasies etc:
"ayla" <aylaa...@hotpopidiotproof.com> wrote
| I had fantasies just like that on my walks home from school,
| as well as in my room at night. However, I did *not*
| baby-sit for anyone cool enough to have "O" on their
| bookshelf. Makes me determined to have my books in a public,
| inconspicuous place for my babysitters to find if they need
| it. And, my kids too.
|
| Thank you for sharing this, it's nice to know I'm not the
| only one. :-)
|
| ayla
You're welcome! You're not the only one!
I agree with you about making the books discreetly available
to the youngsters. But I feel it's a fine line to tread.
I gave my kid "Sex for Dummies" when he was 13, because his
school did not have any kind of Sex Ed, no matter what
euphemism you name it with. I didn't have any trouble telling
him what I felt he needed to know, or answering what he wanted
to know, at any age so far - he's 18 now, and as far as I can
tell, done asking.
But I haven't talked to him about my favourite kink. (Though
since I know he digs through my bedside bookshelf at will,
he's probably realised my collection is pretty skewed.)
Why not? I have to admit I haven't made a well-considered
decision. It just seemed like "more than he probably wants or
needs to know." It's no secret, and if he asked me, "Mom are
you really into getting spanked/spanking?" I'd tell him "Yes,
I think it's sexy and fun."
Would you tell your own kids or others about liking spanking?
I also keep my precious spanking videos under lock and key.
Why? Since I'm willing to let the books be "found"? Darned if
I know, but again it feels like its more than I want him to be
exposed to through ME. Maybe it's my personal interpretation
of the incest taboo. If he wants to rustle up his own spanking
video and watch it on my machine in my house, fine. But if he
gets it from me...not fine. Show me where it says I have to be
consistent.
Anybody else got an opinion on this?
Polara
HOWEDY laura,
"polara" <lar...@muchomail.com> wrote in message
news:Dblkc.10786$EV2.97520@amstwist00...
> "Marie" <m...@rogers.com> wrote
> <snip>
> | It turns out that her main concern isn't bowling
> | alleys or bus yard offices, it is lawns and parks grass.
> Over here we're getting more warnings that
> raising kids in an overly clean environment
> seems to lead to more asthma/allergy.
INDEED.
> My breeder's grandkids
Your "ETHICKAL breeder" sold you a
REPLACEMENT dog after you MURDERED
your own DEAD DOG Chewie CAUSE YOU
WOULDN'T STOP HURTIN and INTIMIDATING
HIM.
> Laura and Angel in Oslo.
HOWEDY laura,
"Laura" <l...@wordfixers.no> wrote in message
news:QLiZb.936$EV2.7231@amstwist00...
> Diana wrote:
diana is a dog abuser a liar and a mental case.
Like yourself.
> | > if other areas of his obedience are going well,
> | > use that to help you break this habit - if he's
> | > busy performing a command for you, he won't
> | > be busy barking for you.
Yeah. That'll provoke the dog to do it MOORE
cause it'll REWARD his attention gettin devices.
> Lee John Moore wrote:
> | I've tried this too, but have no success.
That's cause lee is a MOOREON.
> | He performs the command but continues to bark.
SEE??? Told ya so!
> Since he's a smart and obedient dog,
Yeah. Smart, obedient, Feisty, Humorous, Brave,
Curious And Playful. Full Of "Joie de Vivre,"
> perhaps you could give him a command
Like the DIE command, laura?
> that precludes barking?
Oh? You must mean the "NO BARK!" command.
Won't work on this Feisty, Humorous, Brave,
Curious And Playful. Full Of "Joie de Vivre, dog.
> Perhaps teach him to sit and hold an object for
> you - dumbbell, glove, rolled newspaper, ball -
Yeah. That'll make him very happy. He WANTS
attention, and that'd be payin him off.
> you could simply carry an item like this in your
> pocket when you go out.
RIGHT. That COULD work... till WON fine
day when IT don't have sumpthin to put in
ITS MHOWETH and then he'll GO NUTS.
> And then Sit! Hold! would produce the
> desired behaviour?
Yeah. Like it did for your DEAD DOG Chewie.
> Just a thought...
Yeah. That's HOWE COME you MUREDERED
your own DEAD DOG Chewie.
> Laura and Angel in Oslo
laura MURDERED her heart dog Chewie just like
HOWE your pal tara o. did her DEAD DOG Summer
as have many of HOWER DOG LOVERS here abHOWETS.
Here's HOWE COME laura KILLED her dog Chewie:
From: Laura Arlov (l...@wordfixers.no)
Subject: Re: Chewie bit my husband !
Date: 1999/01/20
Well, we're doing as you say Dogman,
and I'll keep you all posted.
------------------------------
> Laura in Oslo
You're quite the dog enthusiast, eh laura?
> The listener,
You didn't WANT to listen to The Puppy Wizard when
HE told you you couldn't PUNISH and INTIMIDATE
your dog or you'd make IT aggressive.
> the observer.
NHOWE you got a DEAD DOG HOWETA it.
> We do work were you sometimes have to observe people
Like laura, MURDERING her dog...
> and take notes.
INDEEDY!
> B. has amazing powers of observation and concentration.
RIGHT...
> Laura and Angel in Oslo
"Feisty, Humorous, Brave, Curious And
Playful. Full Of "Joie de Vivre," And DEAD.
Date: 2003-10-29 23:49:52 PST
HOWEDY People,
Here's HOWE COME laura arlov KILLED her "Feisty,
Humorous, Brave, Curious And Playful. Full Of "Joie
de Vivre," And DEAD DOG Chewie:
From: Dogman (dog...@i1.net)
Subject: Re: Dogman advocates dogs biting people
Date: 1999/04/25
While I was listening to the Miles Davis CD, "Kind Of
Blue," and drinking a little Booker's, on 24 Apr 1999
22:47:09 GMT, brokens...@aol.com (Brokenseat) wrote:
> Was that a SERIOUS ENOUGH bite for you dogman,
> or was it insignificant? Why would you suggest getting
> a book or obediance, is there no bite SERIOUS enough
> for you?
Yes, there are, but this one was *caused* by the actions
of a very, very STUPID human being, someone much like
yourself.
And it only hapopened ONCE.
And there are many, many dogs out there today
living perfectly normal and honorable lives who,
upon having done to them what was done to
this dog ("Chewie"), would also bite.
I mean, how stupid can one person get?
Don't answer that yet, Broke, you're setting a new
record almost everyday.
Here's what the owner's husband did (and precisely
what caused the bite), just in case you forgot:
> (My husband was holding Chewie's head and looking
> him in the eye and yelling at him, and Chewie growled
> louder and louder and louder and then bit my husband.)
I wonder just how many dogs out there wouldn't at
least be tempted to bite some stupid idiot for doing
that to him?
I include below the entire post for viewers reading
pleasure, and so they can take everything I said in
its proper *context.*
PS: I'd be willing to wager a large amount of money
that this particular dog will never bite this guy again,
provided:
1.) The family gives this dog some OBEDIENCE training.
2.) The guy refrains from doing really STUPID things to the dog.
3.) The guy PARTICIPATES in the training.
4.) They have a professional ASSESS the dog.
Putting this dog down simply for doing the above is
UNCONSCIONABLE.
This dog needs to be assessed, in person, by a knowledgeable
trainer/behaviorist before any action is even considered.
>>>>Now yesterday morning, Chewie lost his temper with my
>>>>husband and bit him, hard. (Deep puncture, lots of blood,
>>>>docot visit, tetanus shot, antibiotics, the whole shooting
>>>>match)
>
>>> Dogman's words of wisdom:
>>> You need to get a book on recognizing animal
>>> behavior ***(I have some listed on my web site)***,
>>> and you need to get your husband (and children, if
>>> they're old enough) involved in the OBEDIENCE
>>> training of this dog.
>
>>> WRONG. You need to cull. Do not give that dog a
>>> second chance to bite someone and draw blood
>>> another time, like your childs face...
>>> Broke Egoman and his dangerous advice should be ignored.
Doofuses are always welcome to ignore my advice,
after all, that's why they remain doofuses, eh?
********************
Beginning of the actual post, before Broke selectively snipped:
Upon my return to the Cuckoo's Nest,
Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:22:09 ?,
"Laura Arlov" <l...@wordfixers.no> says:
[...]
>We have an 18 month old male Airedale Terrier,
>Chewbacca (Chewie). He's entire -- and I might as well
>tell you right now it's not legal to neuter male dogs in
>Norway for anything other than medical reasons, so he'll
> probably be staying that way.
That's too bad, because neutering might help (of course,
it might not help, either).
FYI, 95% of stallions (horses) in America are neutered.
That's right, only 5% of horses are responsible for breeding.
Why?
Have you ever been on a ranch or farm where there
were a lot of stallions living together?
If you had, you'd understand why 95% of them get
their *tools* taken away at an early age!
The same thing goes for dogs to a great extent.
>Now yesterday morning, Chewie lost his temper with my
>husband and bit him, hard. (Deep puncture, lots of blood,
>docot visit, tetanus shot, antibiotics, the whole shooting match)
>I have no trouble seeing how this incident is a result
>of Chewie's age and hormones, and mistakes that we
>have made.
> He's our first dog. before we got him I read that Airedale
> males could be a pretty tough proposition, so I've been
> working actively with Chewie and settring limits for him
> all his life, and he respects me.
But he doesn't respect your hubbie, does he?
Otherwise this would never have happened.
You're right, Airedales are TOUGH dogs, just like
virtually any *terrier.*
>My son and husband mostly pet him and play with him.
That's part of your problem I think. Your husband has
fallen in the pecking order to an EQUAL. That is, your
dog sees your husband as an equal, perhaps even an
inferior, and that's what the growling, etc., were all about.
> Now that Chewie is trying to improve his position
> in our family flock by defying my husband, my husband
> is all of the sudden trying to put his foot down and discipline
> Chewie...
This putting-down-of-the-foot cannot take place quickly.
It will have to develop over time.
But the best way to accelerate it is to have your husband
start to take over the OBEDIENCE training of your dog,
and he needs a lot more of it, Laura.
No dog of mine would ever even think about growling
at me, much less ever bite me. Or any member of my
family, the dog's pack.
Because I've made them all realize, early on, that all
humans are higher in status to them.
And their OBEDIENCE training is *ongoing,* therefore
it's constantly reinforced.
Dogs ABHOR leadership vacuums!
> (My husband was holding Chewie's head and looking
> him in the eye and yelling at him, and Chewie growled
> louder and louder and louder and then bit my husband.)
You need to get a book on recognizing animal behavior
(I have some listed on my web site), and you need to get
your husband (and children, if they're old enough) involved
in the OBEDIENCE training of this dog.
Otherwise you're likely to have *much* more serious
problems down the road.
> So, we did exactly what the experts on this ng usually
> advise: we called a really good dog training organization
> (where Chewie and I did basic training) and they will be
> sending one or maybe two instructors to observe as all
> at home, help us to understand our dog, and help us with
> home routines and training to straighten this out.
This will really help, I'm sure. They'll want to observe
and understand your pack's "dynamics."
Then they can show you some things that will allow
your husband to assume a more dominant role in the
dog's pack.
> While we're waiting for our first appointment, we're
> supposed to write down our own impressions of Chewie's
> behavior both around the bite and otherwise. And it is clear
> that he feels he came out of the encounter "a bigger man."
You bet. That's why an ounce of PREVENTION is
always worth a pound of CURE.
Especially when it comes to reinforcement of canine behavior.
> Yesterday and today he has gone nuts in the backseat
> of the car when somebody walked by with a male dog...
> and when he pees, he lifts his leg so high he fell over
> twice today.
Yup. This dog needs some intensive OBEDIENCE
training, in my opinion.
But it usually takes an on-site OBSERVATION to
make an accurate assessment of your situation.
> I feel pretty badly about this...sad, I guess. He's a
> great little dog.
He's not so "little," eh?
> Feisty, humorous, brave, curious and playful. Full of
> "joie de vivre" Not outstandlingly intelligent, but shrewd.
> Charming, when he wants to be. I feel like he's really
> blotted his copy books seriously, and I sure see how a
> lot of the responsibility for this is ours.
You're got the right attitude, Laura. Almost all canine behavior
"problems" are created (and reinforced) by us humans.
>Stay tuned, and see how it goes as we try to straighten out this
>dog -- and, maybe more importantly, his owners!
I will, and I hope you will, indeed, let us know how this works
out!
Good luck!
--
Dogman
dog...@i1.net
--
Dogman
dog...@i1.net
Dogman's Den
http://www.i1.net/~dogman
"One four minute session of obedience work,
done properly, will prevent behavior problems
for 48-72 hours. It's in the manual."
Jerry "Moonbeam" Howe
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
From: m i cha el <"m ich ael_at dogtv dot com">
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:24:00 -0400
Subject: Re: For Handsome Jack Morrison: Collars - (MENTAL NEWS)
Paula wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:29:48 -0500, shelly <scouvre...@bluemarble.net>
> wrote:
>>on 2005-07-18 at 21:09 <mmmtobler...@earthlink.ent> wrote:
>>> Interesting that it comes from "Your Conscience" and starts
>>> with HOWE speak and yet ends with "Lucy" talking about Jerry
>>> and signed by "Lucy."
>> that, and Lucifer who just happened to show up today, xposting
>> Howespew to kingdom come and back again.
> I can understand that. When his meds are working better, he wants to
> say some of the same things without looking like a complete lunatic
> and an ass and maybe clean up the image of that other Jerry. So up
> pops someone to say well, he's kind of odd, but his ideas are great!
> Apparently, he has been skipping a few doses here and there again and
> is on his way back to psycho only.
Well...
We don't really know whether or not Jerry uses
meds, but we know you do!
How are your meds treating you?
=============================
THE COMPLETE DOG NEWSGROUP MENTAL ILLNESS
LIST (WHEW!) AS OF 8/6/2004
BREAKING MENTAL ILLNESS NEWS!
DATELINE: August 6, 2004
NEWSGROUPS: Dog Related + ARK
California Mormon Mom come Kibologist Paula
Makes Dog Newsgroup Mental Illness History
OUR FIRST CRAZY MORMON
Paula is a divorced Mormon Mom who dabbles freely
in Kibology, leaving herself at risk for being
Smite into a pile of rubble by either an angry,
vengeful God or worse yet, a Kibo unglued.
As a California based youth counselor, Paula
helps children deal with physical & emotional
problems while dealing with mental problems of
her own. Particularly chronic depression for
which she is drugged.
Paula has a long history of questioning her
faith, questioning her mother and worrying about
whether or not she'll be excommunicated for the
thoughts in her head. With good reason, after
spending so much time fraternizing with free
thinking, blaspheming Kibologists.
At one point, when Paula was suffering from a
heavy bout of depression, and in violation of
Mormonology and her mother's own advice, she
eschewed prayer and instead enlisted the heelp of
Harco Industries own twillis, who cruelly
flaunted her vaunted Paxil supply
"Sorry, go ride a horse, hands off my
Paxil."
says HARCO's twillis
WON'T SHARE MY PAXIL WITH PAULA
From: HarCo Industries (tdwil...@earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: I need
Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology
Date: 2003-05-13 09:48:41 PST
mmmtobler...@earthlink.ent (Paula) wrote
> I need something to get me out of this
> deepening depression.
I prescribe a horseback ride.
Really.
I'd share my Paxil with you, but I'm selfish.
twillis
To which Paula responded:
THE PAXIL IS NOT ENOUGH
"HAH! Paxil stopped working for me
and I had to switch to Celexa, for the
really and truly messed up!"
Paula
From: Paula (mmmtobler...@earthlink.ent)
Subject: Re: ATTENTION DOCTROID DOCTROID: Thad Van Cenks
paula's concise thesis on depression:
THE PRINGLES ARE NOT ENOUGH
Oh, honey! Pringles are never an adequate defense
against depression. It takes large amounts of premium
ice cream, at the very least.
THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH
BUT ZOLOFT IS TOO MUCH
BETTER FAT THAN DEAD
Also, zoloft is not a good anti-depressant because it
makes you fat. Or so an acquaintance of mine told me.
I refrained from pointing out to her that being fat
was not exactly a bad trade-off if you stopped being
suicidal in so many words.
SERIOUSLY, CHRONIC DEPRESSION IS LIKE THIS
Seriously, chronic depression is all about feeling
like shit and not knowing why. If there were a reason,
it would be "the blues" or something equally not quite
fuzzy but not really serious sounding.
YOU KNOW, LIKE FEMALE TROUBLE
THAT'S WHERE GOOD DRUGS COME IN
UNLESS YOU LISTEN TO MY MOM
You know, like "female trouble." This is where good
drugs come in. Unless you listen to my mom, who
thinks that you should be able to pray and read your
scriptures and serve others to happiness and full
enjoyment of living. The rest of us wish she would
It seems that Paula's mom tries to make her feel bad for
being mental, just like Sighthounds aka Mustang Sally
tried to make Kelly aka Culprit feel bad about her mental
problems
WISH YOU WOULD SHUT THE HELL UP AND
GET ON SOME MEDS YOURSELF, MOM!
not only shut up about how to treat our issues but
also stay on some good meds herself.
DRUGS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN PRAYERS OR PRINGLES
BUT FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, DRUGS WORK BETTER
Anyway, I have to say the good drugs route works much
better and takes less time, too. It's more expensive
than praying and pringles, but it's worth it. Get
thee to a good psychiatrist. If you can find a good
therapist, that helps, too.
DO NOT BEAT YOURSELF UP
Do not in any way, shape or form beat up on yourself
for your depression making no sense or not being made
worse by commercials, however. That is an order.
Paula
Paula's mother would prefer that her children pray to
the Mormon God or Jesus, or whomever the Mormons pray
to, but Paula and her brother prefer drugging themselves
instead.
MY BROTHER, MY PAXIL
rmho...@mindspring.com wrote:
> >Youre talking to someone on meds for
> >Social Phobia.
Sarah Cherlin <scher...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> Ummm...what are those? I need to know for,
> like, a friend.
Paula (mmmtobler...@earthlink.net) responds
PAXIL MADE ALL THE DIFFERENCE
For my brother, paxil made all the difference.
He feels like a new person, and acts like one
too. And he has been living with a hawt chyk
for years now when before he had problems with
supervisors at work, with friendships and with
wimmin because he just never felt socially
comfortable. It really has made a huge
difference for him.
Paula
Paula discussing both her own, and more
specifically, the mental problems of her husband
before they got divorced, exhibiting a slight
masochistic bent:
From: Paula (mmmtobler...@earthlink.ent)
Subject: Re: Marriage and Kids
Newsgroups: soc.religion.mormon
Date: 2003-11-02 08:28:04 PST
ASKED HUBBY TO BEAT ME
Yes. I once told my husband that I wished he
would hit me. He didn't believe me. I asked him
what was more hurtful and had the longest lasting
and most devastating effect on him, the physical
abuse or the emotional abuse he suffered as a child.
HE COULD ONLY CRY
BUT AGREED TO GO TO COUNSELING
He could only cry. He agreed to go to counseling
immediately after processing that question. I don't
think you have to sit around while your spouse beats
WHO IS BEATING WHOM?
up your spirit any more than you are expected to sit
around waiting for the next physical beating. There
are other reasons cancellations of sealings have been
granted, even in the stricter days, so it appears
there are various "legitimate" reasons for divorce,
even when it is a temple marriage
Paula uses her own mental illness experience to help
her in her capacity as counselor to others who
are suffering with mental problems. Here, Paula
coaches Matt into taking some Paxil, so that
Skylab won't fall on him.
Matt McIrvin <mmcir...@world.std.com> wrote:
PAULA, I KNOW SKYLAB IS GOING TO FALL ON ME
> No, it's a sign that *I personally* have a
> tendency to become worried about catastrophic
> consquences of everything. I've known this
> for a long time-- when I was twelve, I was
> convinced that Skylab was going to fall ON
> ME PERSONALLY--
MATT, TAKE IT EASY AND TAKE SOME PAXIL
Matt, you are a sweetheart, but definitely a
worrying sweetheart. I hope you can find a way to
calm down your fears and turn off that cycle of
escalating worry. I have an aunt like that and
she has literally driven herself crazy....
I don't want you to end up like that. Take it
easy and take some paxil.
Paula
========================================
BREAKING NEWS.
SHELLY DETHRONES NESSA AS OUR NEW MVP (most valuable psychotic)
Nessa loses MVP title due to inactivity
so shelly takes over by default)
========================================
ALL NEW as of 9/19/2004
A SPECIAL BONUS ON shelly couvrette,
========================================================
All in the Mental Family
shelly: severe OCD
shelly's mom: chronic depression
shelly's brother: severe BiPolar
shelly's dogs are victims of Munchausens
Anorexia by proxy Syndrome. Here, she goes
off the deep end because she OCD'd on a
conversation she overheard about the quantity
of food being fed to her coworker's son's
shih tzus.
hattie, shelly's starving boxer (who,
theoretically, if she was not being
systematically starved by a psychotic
owner) should weigh at least five times
more than a shih tzu, yet she doesn't
get five times as much food. She
doesn't even get twice as much.
Can you say "KUCKOOOO!!!"
IT DRIVES ME CRAZY THAT MY COWORKER'S SON
DOESN'T STARVE HIS DOG
SHIH TZUS EAT MORE THAN HALF AS MUCH AS
HATTIE
one of my cow-orkers was just on the phone
with her son.....
and, get this! the were discussing feeding
amounts. her Shih Tzus eat more than half
as much as my dogs! i don't know if that's
because Iams is less calorically dense than
the foods my dogs eat or what, but i'm
boggled. *boggled*, i tell ya'.
so, anyway, i've bitten my tongue nearly
in half.
-- shelly (perfectly foul wench) and
elliott and harriet
EMACIATED, VET WAS SURPRISED
"when i got harriet she was emaciated, so
i asked my vet for advice on slowly adding
weight to her. six months later i took
harriet in for her spring check-up and my
vet was surprised that at how thin she still
was."
--shelly couvrette
STILL VET SHOPPING
"<raises hand> i've been told by three
different vets that harriet (53lbs) is
*way* too skinny. we're still vet-shopping,
BTW."
--shelly couvrette
THE OL' "I'M STARVING" ROUTINE
"if you really can't resist it when your dog pulls
the "i'm starving!" routine <G>, you can give
him some frozen green beans or a small amount
of plain pureed pumpkin. i would also suggest
putting the food out of his sight. i keep my
food--still inside the bags, which are tightly
rolled down--inside trash cans in the closed
laundry room. that keeps it fresh and keeps
it out of my dogs' sight."
--shelly couvrette
POSITIVELY STARVED
"heh. i get the opposite response. people think
that poor little harriet is positively starved
to death. i've actually had people stop me in
the pet supply shop and tell me that i need to
fatten her up!"
--shelly couvrette
WHO WANTS TO BE TOLD YOU ARE HURTING YOUR
WIDDLE PRECIOUS?
"i think that may be part of the problem. who
wants to go to a vet who tells you you're
hurting your .widdle precious? i think the
other part is that some vets really don't
*realize* that what they consider proper weight
is fat. after having been told by a couple of
vets that my dogs are too thin, i've got a dim
view of vets on that topic."
--shelly couvrette
JUST A BITE WON'T HURT
--shelly's mom
FEED HER AND I'LL RIP YOUR
ARM OFF, BITCH
-shelly
"my mom is kinda that way, but not *as* bad.
she thinks that harriet is awfully skinny,
so feeding her table snax is okay. she
tells me that just a bite won't hurt."
--shelly couvrette
March 2004, HATTIE DOWN TO 47 POUNDS
"while i was sick,
elliott was *pretty* good (he got really
needy and pathetic toward the end), but
harriet turned into 47lbs of pure
orneriness."
--shelly couvrette
NOBODY IS STARVING SHELLY
NOBODY WILL STOP SHELLY ON THE STREET
AND TELL HER SHE IS STARVING HERSELF
shelly's fat face
http://home.bluemarble.net/~sc ouvrette/Wshelly2.jpg
=======================================================
There are a lot of big fat women on these groups who
starve their dogs out of vanity, but shelly is a
special case.
shelly is more than a little bit beyond the pale
Shelly has OCD, and maybe she's just a little
obsessive about measuring out extra tiny and
discrete portions with a tiny measuring
cup, or counting out pieces of green bean or
pumpkin that she gives her dogs when they give
her the "I'm Starving" routine. When grandma
tried to give Hattie a snack, shelly probably
went apeshit, because it was in violation of
her Obsessive need to oversee every tiny
calorie that goes into her widdle precious'
mouth.
shelly's a special case, a special kind of
dog abuser.
NEWSFLASH
in late september, 2004 shelly left the group
because diddy was a meanie pants to her.
shelly's illness prevented her from seeing
the reality that she was the # 1
meanie pants in the history of the dog
newsgroups. We hope she gets the treatment
she needs.
Disclaimer:
=========================================
MENTAL ILLNESS IN RPD*
Mental illness is a public issue in the dog newsgroups.
People are always running around calling other people
mentally ill and diagnosing their illnesses. I think
it's only fair that we have an accurate list of who
is and who isn't mentally ill, so that we can avoid
any misunderstandings and promote group harmony.
This list is strictly for group harmony purposes.
=======================================
NEW!
LYNN K. Staunch Law and Order type
CAUGHT ON TAPE AT WOODSTOCK!
Passing Joint to Cameraman
From: Lynn K. (java...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Using Zoloft or Prozac as a one shot treatment
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2001-09-27 23:13:46 PST
Gwen Watson <g...@ig.utexas.edu> wrote in message
<news:3BB2402B...@ig.utexas.edu>...
> At Woodstock?????? Oh you lucky, lucky women!
> I will be forever jealous of you devulging this tid
> bit of info! GGGGggggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
More of us than you know. I'm even in the movie.
Let me tell you about trying to advise a teenager
about drugs after the ever-helpful uncle points out
your 15 seconds of fame - passing a joint to the
cameraman as Arlo Gutrie croons "coming into Los
Angeleeeze......." in the background :-( Kind of
undermines the parental authority thing.
Lynn K.
==========================================
REC.PETS.DOGS CRAZY PERSON LIST
as of
8/1/2004
-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
BREAKING MENTAL ILLNESS NEWS
DATELINE: AUGUST 1, 2004
Tara O. aka, Tee is an Anorexia Survivor
UNTIL YOU'VE LIVED WITH THIS DISORDER
YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND HOW DEVASTATING
Tara O. aka Tee, is in many ways a typical suburban
South Carolinian soccer mom. Upon casual inspection,
nothing appears to be amiss. Tara, aka Tee spends her
free time surfing the internet and is a big fan of the
WB's "Gilmore Girls." Tara is also a passionate member
of the Carolina Boxer Rescue network. The only sign of
controversy or untowardness is that Tara's own Boxer
Summer was suddently put to sleep in October 2001,
despite several offers from an Orlando, FL dog expert
(Jerry Howe) to adopt her, claiming he could easily
cure Summer's behavioral problems.
Looking at Tara today, you'd never know that when she
was a teen, she suffered for five years with the
debilitating mental disorder, known as anorexia.
Tara is now a healthy weighted (some would say
plump) mom in her thirties, but during her teens
Tara O. (along with her Bulimic Friend), looked like
a skeleton.
like so many of the mentally ill before her, Tara O.
is coming forward because she wants to educate those
who come after her. The message Tara is sending is
clear. Mental illness is nothing to be ashamed of.
"We don't have to hide any longer!" she seems to be
saying.
Tara O. aka, Tee attributes her anorexia to
a lack of self esteem, which sprung from peer
pressure and an upbringing that could have been
more nurturing.
Determined that the same fate not befall her daughter
Amie, and out of a belief that no child should have to
follow the same path of self destruction and starvation,
Tara, in graphic and sometimes excruciating detail
relives the drama of how she was bowed and broken by,
but ultimately came back to beat anorexia.
YOU GO (gilmore) Girl!
Tara and Amie's harrowing saga (below) is a cautionary
tale and a must read for all of those, who care deeply
about the future of young girls in America. This is an
issue that affects both young and old, black and white,
male and female all across America.
Tara is doing everything in her power, including
medicating her daughter Amie with Ritalin, so that Amie
does not have to feel the sting of self esteem issues,
brought on by peer pressure courtesy of the cliques of
marauding "mean girls" who prey on young females
struggling to find their way and their indentity during
the precarious and perilous passage from adolescence
to young adulthood. We can only be thankful that Tara
prevailed and lived to tell her story.
We wish Tara O and her daughter Amie nothing but success
in overcoming mental illness and mental disorders. Tara
and Amie, you are an inspiration to us all!
I BATTLED ANOREXIA FOR MOST OF MY TEEN YEARS
WE BOTH LOOKED STICK THIN
Well if you had one and you did it to gain attention
then quite frankly you'd be the first person I have
ever heard of taking that approach. I battled anorexia
for most of my teen years and had a very good
acquaintance who was bulimic and almost died. We both
looked stick thin but could cover the circles around
our eyes with makeup and the colorless, chapped lips
with lipstick. How often did any of us see Diana out
in public during this time with no makeup on as well
as up-close & personal?
--
Tara
Carolina Boxer Rescue
UNTIL YOU'VE LIVED WITH THIS DISORDER
YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND HOW DEVASTATING
IT'S NOT LIKE SLITTING YOUR WRISTS
Until you've lived with an eating disorder, you cannot
understand how devastating they can be or what goes on
in the person's head during the time. Book smarts are
all good and well but there is never just one
cut-and-dried reason for becoming bulimic or anorexic.
Your whole theory is shot simply by the fact that the
vast majority of bulimics and anorexics go out of their
way to HIDE their problems. They do not want attention
drawn to themselves. Its not like slitting your wrists
in the wrong direction so that people will know you want
or need help.
--
Tara
Carolina Boxer Rescue
------------
From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Does Liza Weil have anorexia?
Newsgroups: alt.tv.gilmore-girls
Date: 2002-10-10 10:54:39 PST
SORRY TO BE GRAPHIC
HER NICE-SIZED CHEST WOULD SHRINK AND DROOP
She doesn't look anorexic to me. She'd be much
skinner, much bonier and her nice-sized chest would
shrink & droop. Sorry to be graphic but I know a
good bit about the disease and the effects it has
on appearance
--
Tara
Carolina Boxer Rescue
http://cbr.homestead.com
--------------------
"Tom" <tomlit...@hotmail.com> wrote
> So, from your view, why did Diana write a book by
> way of Andrew Morton that talked ALL about it? And
> then, why did she go on PANOROMA and talk about it
> some more?
FOR FIVE YEARS, I LOOKED LIKE A SKELETON, AND I
WANT TO HELP OTHERS. I'M STEPPING FORWARD, TOM
For the same reason that I've talked about my 5-year
problem with anorexia to others.....to educate others
and to help explain why when anyone sees pictures of
me during my teens, I look like a skeleton.
--
Tara
Carolina Boxer Rescue
----------
LEAVE PRINCESS DI ALONE, TOM
Newsgroups: alt.gossip.royalty
Date: 2002-08-06 05:35:07 PST
"Tom" <tomlit...@hotmail.com> wrote
> If she had been as sick as she said she was
> she would not have looked as good as she did.
> Her hair and teeth and
> skin would have been ragged and spotty.
> It's really that simple.
YOU'VE NEVER SUFFERED FROM THIS ILLNESS, TOM
YOU'VE NEVER STARVED YOURSELF, DAMMIT, I HAVE
No its not and you've obviously never suffered from
this illness or anorexia which is related. Firstly,
I've seen pictures of her where she did look deathly.
It was very likely only due to heavy makeup and help
with her hair that she even managed to look
presentable.
--
Tara
Carolina Boxer Rescue
---------
PEIR PRESSURE AND ANOREXIA
"Tom" <tomlit...@hotmail.com> wrote
> Bulimia is a sympton of a personality disorder.
> I'm not sure what doctor's you're talking to.
> Diana was absolutely a textbook example
> of a borderline personality:
LOOK, TOM, I SAW A DOCTOR FOR MY ANOREXIA
SO I KNOW A LITTLE MORE ABOUT THIS THAN YOU
"I've never heard of low self-esteem being
classified as a personality disorder. The doctors
I refer to are the ones who lectured at one of my
high school as well as a doctor I had to see for my
anorexia."
> Borderline personality disorder is characterized
> by mood instability
> and poor self-image.
PIER PRESSURE IS A BIG PROBLEM FOR TEENS, TOM
"Low self-esteem affects alot of people at some
point in their life, usually in their teens when
pier opinion is very important. Then there is
the lack of self-esteem created by a verbally
abusive friend or family member. You tell
someone something enough times and they might
just start believing you."
> Everything is related to personality.
> I don't see how you can say
> that any mental illness is NOT related to
> a personality disorder.
> Where are you getting your information?
MENTAL DISORDERS HAVE A WAY OF SHOWING
THEMSELVES THROUGH WORDS, TOM
"Related yes as in mental disorders have a way
of showing themselves through someone's words &
actions which can be interpreted as personality.
But mental issues and personality issues are not
one in the same."
--
Tara
Carolina Boxer Rescue
http://cbr.homestead.com
WHAT I HAVE LEARNED, TOM
From all I know of bulimia, it is not normally
a symptom of a personality disorder such as manic
depression, bi-polar, or anything else. It is,
most of the time from what I have come to know,
a byproduct of someone having too little
self-esteem. There are other reasons but none
that cause bulimia as often as lack of
self-esteem from what I have learned.
--
Tara
------------------
TARA'S DAUGHTER AMIE IS BEING DRUGGED FOR ADHD
From: Tee (crappolagozh...@netscape.net)
Subject: Re: OT - ADHD
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2004-02-07 21:09:37 PST
I'M NOT A RITALIN PUSHER
I should add that I'm not an ADHD or
Ritalin pusher. While there are diehard
disbelievers there are also diehard believers,
almost fanatical. My contributions to this
thread on children are based solely on my own
experience with Amie for the last 3.5 years
...
ONLY A WEEK
Amie has only been on the medication for a week.
We and the teacher have already noticed a
significant change in her ability to not only pay
attention
...
CLEARED ALL THE CHAOS AND NOISE
Its like someone cleared all the chaos & noise
out of her head and took the earplugs out of her
ears. That's not to say I swear by the drug because
its still in the trial phase with her but if this is
what we can expect from this medication then she'll
remain on it until she chooses not to.
...
MY DAUGHTER WILL NEVER BE AN HONOR STUDENT,
BUT I'M OKAY WITH THAT
My daughter will never be an honor roll student and
I don't care about that, I just don't want her to
fail school and watch her friends move on for something
she can't control.
--
Tara
------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
SPECIAL THANKS TO CHRIS JUNG
for the PROZE and CONS of PROZAC
CHRIS JUNG on the
PROZE and CONS of PROZAC
I have to comment here. Anti-depressants such
as Prozac do not have any "drugging" effect. It
doesn't tranquilize, make euphoric, or cause
any sort of change in behavior except for
bringing the brain imbalances back to normal
and thus reducing depression. I take Prozac and
the difference between being on Prozac and not
is very subtle. I still feel everything (happy,
sad, nervous, mad) but I'm just not as
unreasonably bummed about it.
==================================
DATELINE: JULY 23, 2004
REC.PETS.DOGS NEWSGROUPS
A WARM WELCOME TO OUR NEWEST CRAZY PERSON
BETHGSD
Please, all mental cases on deck! We need to
Welcome Bethgsd, and let her know that she is
not alone. If any of you can heelp, with some
encouraging words, that would be great.
You are not alone, Beth!!
REC PET DOGS NEWSGROUPS CRAZY KLUB
NEWEST INDUCTEE BETHGSD
July 2004
=======================================
From: Bethgsd (beth...@aol.comnojunk)
Subject: Re: failed attempt to rehabilitate aggressive dog
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2002-04-11 16:42:08 PST
Gwen wrote:
>Absolutely! And I personally find it somewhat
>insulting that the comparisons of this were made.
>Since I do have epilepsy myself and it is a very
>life threatening disease when one is not on
>medication. Very.
>
>Gwen
>
>
[Bethgsd Responds]
[GWEN, GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS...
CHEMICAL IMBALANCES CAN BE LIFE THREATENING]
Well, Gwen I suffer from severe depression which
is controlled by a particular SSRI and I find it
insulting that you don't feel that chemical
imbalances can be lifethreatening. No, I don't
go into status but I've attempted to commit
suicide a few too many times. And no, those
weren't little "cries for help" they were honest
to G-D attemts to get out of the pain.
So get your head out of your ass and realize that
chemical imbalances can be as life threatening,
if in a different way, than electrical misfiring.
Beth [aka Bethgsd]
not to be confused with
the non crazy (as far as we know, BethF)
----------------------------
Disclaimer:
=========================================
MENTAL ILLNESS IN RPD*
Mental illness is a public issue in the dog newsgroups.
People are always running around calling other people
mentally ill and diagnosing their illnesses. I think
it's only fair that we have an accurate list of who
is and who isn't mentally ill, so that we can avoid
any misunderstandings and promote group harmony.
This list is strictly for group harmony purposes.
=======================================
Dateline: rec.pets.dogs.* newsgroups
Breaking Mental Illness News, JUNE 2004!
HATTIE @ 47 lbs!
Hattie, a boxer owned by shelly couvrette is
now down to 47 pounds. Couvrette, a librarian
at Indiana U. who suffers from obsessive/
compulsive disorder (OCD), was told by three
different Veterinarians that Hattie was "way
too skinny" when Hattie weighed 53 lbs.
Undeterred by that, and the reactions from
family and strangers on the street, shelly
continued shopping for vets and cutting
calories until Hattie,a chronic counter
surfer at age 5 now weighs just 47 lbs!
shelly finds all the symptoms of a starving
dog searching for nutrients to be
entertaining. Couvrette has developed a unique
technique to fool dogs who are having
pangs of starvation. She feeds them
green beans and canned pumpkin, so there
will be some "filler" in their stomachs
when they give her the "I'm Starving--no,
really" routine.
shelly is not nearly as obsessed with her
own weight, and has never been told by a
medical professional that she is "way too
skinny." If so, that medical professional
would be end up on this crazy person list
as well.
For a complete recap of the shelly and
hattie show, page down to the bottom of
this list.
=================================
=================================
In other news....
JUNE 2004
LEAH ditches Effexor for Zyban.
Leah Roberts, a professional dog
trainer and former Jew who has turned
her life over to Jesus, has graduated
from the ranks of PetSmart Trainers and
has signed on with a progressive agility
and family pet focused Dog Training outfit
Canine Action based in Orlando, Fl.
http://www.canineaction.com
As part of the move, Leah has switched
mental medications from from Effexor to
Zyban in an attempt to quit smoking. As a
result, she has much more energy, which
has allowed her to pass a colonoscopy exam
with flying colors.
Said Roberts:
"I'm wondering if it was the
med [effexor] and not the CFS that was
affecting me so badly."
Leah continues to improve her life and is
considering buying herself a motorcycle for
her 50th birthday later this year. Leah is
almost to the point where we can remove her
from the crazy person list. But not yet.
We wish her continued success in becoming
crazy-free.
============================================
RPD* MeNTally Ill All_StaRz as of 7/23/2004
LYNN K. 20 plus years on Lithium
LOIS E. 25 plus years on tricyclics
Hello Fans,
here is our latest NEW AND IMPROVED crazy person update,
including our latest mentally unstable person, Lois E.
of Gary and Lois fame who has been on Tricyclics
pushing 25 years. She is no longer afraid to talk about it.
Neither is Lynn K. who embraces her mental illness and
opens up about her 20 plus years on Lithium, as well as
her love afair with Zoloft.
I TOO HAVE A BIPOLAR MOOD DISORDER (MANIC DEPRESSION)
I ALSO CARE ABOUT DOGS
COMMUNITY IS AN EVOLUTIONARY THING
WORDS OF WISDOM from our own
Lynn Kosmakos
=======================================
From: Chris Kosmakos (chris...@netcom.com)
Subject: Re: complaints and goodbye
Lisa K. Baird (lba...@infinet.com) wrote:
:
: Sheesh, if everyone would start taking responsibility for their own
: actions, wouldn't life be grand?
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder
(manic-depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium
and 50 mg of Zoloft every day. I, also, care
about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post
such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully
outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."
Lynn K.
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
-----------------------------------------
LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar conversation
on Mental problems.
LYNN AND LOIS
Almost 50 years on mental illness medications combined
-----------------------------------------
> But I think what Lois was referring to
> was the fact that Darlene actually
> stated at some point that she was
> bipolar--and, IIRC, that meds did not work
> for her--so she was prone to major-league
> ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND
----------------------------------------
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.breeds
Date: 1999/09/03
BoxHill wrote:
> I know I am totally off topic here, but have you read
> "The Unquiet Mind"?
Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of
watered down for the mass market, if
you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and
decent research. Thank God.
Lynn K.
---------------------------------------
MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"
MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...
YOU DO THE MATH
"What's really terrific, is
now days you can say proudly, 'I take anti-depressives'"
-------------------------------------
Message 52 in thread
From: Gary & lois Edwards (g...@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.breeds
Date: 1999/09/02
Lois E.
-------------------------------------
Updated KUCKOO!! KUCKOOO! DING! DING! DING! list as of 7/27/2004:
list of confirmed or suspected mentally ill (crazy) Regulars
Most of whom are women or homosexuals
RPD CRAZY PERSON ROLL CALL and BIOS
=============================================
=============================================
NESSA
NUTCASE
FORMER MVP (Most Valuable Psychotic) of
dog newsgroups
Successfully dethroned MaryBeth as MVP but
lost her title to shelly due to inactivity
Nessa blames all the problems in her life
on ADD, ADHD Or some other empowering acronym
which encapsulates her futility for her
Her dog bagel, a large newf mix
has used her house liberally
as a toilet since February of 2002. Drives
a 2003 Toyota Matrix, owns a house in
suburban MD, recently got a raise/promotion
to US goverment grade 11 (circa $50,000) and
promptly decided she couldn't afford her two
dogs. With help from non crazy regular
(Paulette) and witchcraft practicing regular
Sara Sionnach, Nessa has decided to keep her
dogs for the time being. She is undergoing
training from Janet "Nice Abdominal Surgery
and getting Run Over for the Family Pet" Boss.
Her results have not been dramatic.
CrAzy ReGulAr helping CraZy ReGular
Leah helping Nessa
=============================
On Fri, 7 Jun 2002 8:40:08 -0400, Leah wrote
Nessa use...@nessa.info wrote:
"As far as the depression goes,
it's not related to Bagel at all.
I have chronic major depression and
I'm just having a flare."
Leah asks
"Are you on any medication?"
Nessa responds
yes for depression, mood swings and ADHD.
I have been for over 10 years.
--nessa
Nessa is Fat as well as crazy
=============================
"For what it's worth...
I picked up 30 pounds when I started
Dilantin. I picked up (just recently) another
20 on risperidol.
I hate that I was a size 8-10 before meds and
now I am solidly (pun intended) a 22-24.
Sad part is, the side effects are worth it.
The positive effects
are too much to part with."
--nessa
============================
NESSA'S HAS A GREAT NEUROPSYCH
==============================
Hi, I have a great neuropsych in Arlington Va.
He is at the Rosyln Metro Station. His name is
Martin Stein
1911 N Fort Myer Dr.
Suite 907
Arlington Va 22209
703-807-2471
email 75120.2...@compuserve.com
Marty is wonderful. He is really the best.
He has also given me permission to post his
infomation on this Newsgroup. If you call
him and see him by all means tell him Nessa
sent you.
--nessa
================================
ROTATE YOUR STIMULANTS
=============================
from: Nessa (n...@ix.netcom.com)
Hi,
I often have to rotate my stimulants.
You can become used to them and sometimes
need a different one for a while. Until I
got on my Desoxyn I rotated Ritilan and
Dexedrine every 3 months or so.
It is true that anti-depressants or
anti-anxiety pills will help with the
stimulants so your DR is not wrong. However,
perhaps she needs to check into the idea that
a switch from cylert to something else might
be in order.
warm thoughts,
Nessa
=============================
=============================================
=============================================
Lois E.
(of Gary and Lois fame)
Lois' has been on tricyclic antidepressants for
approximately 25 years. This may be a record.
Husband is a cop but there is no evidence
that he beats the crap out of her, or that he
has for 25 years.
Had a traumatic experience as a child with a
horse running wild in the Pantry and living room.
In recent years, shot neighbor's dog from point
blank range while it was chewing on her pigmy goat,
teaching son to solve problems with the neighbor's
using shock and awe levels of violence."
BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS
"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,
"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted." The
good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.
No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."
Lois E.
=============================================
=============================================
Kelly/
culprit
Systems engineer at Microsoft, owner of two
pitbulls, proving that Bill Gates does not
discriminate against crazy people or pit bull
owners.
psychotic features, panic and more. Coming
forward so that others like her will have the
strength to do the same. Like Charlie Wilkes,
she is one of our most entertraining regulars
Here, kelly/culprit talks to Mustang Sally
about her mental illness/crazy problems.
Sally is being rude and condescending (as usual)
and trying to make kelly/culprit feel bad for
being crazy, aka wacked in the head
culprit standing up for herself against rude and condescending Mustang
Sally
-----------------------------------------------
I WON'T DENY MY PROBLEMS, MUSTANG SALLY!
"but i stand by the fact that OCD is an
illness, major depression with psychotic features
certainly is, panic disorder is too. and the
other stuff just makes it all the more fun.
i don't wallow in it. i'm just now learning to
accept it, because ignoring it wasn't working out
too well. i need to do that to make changes to my
life so that i can become healthy. and you say
you're not trying to be condescending, but you're
doing it again. what i read was, (my paraphrasing)
"people who think they're mentally ill are
wallowing in their disabilities and letting them
consume their life"
you come across as though you would be able to
handle any of these illnesses, and anyone who
can't is just copping out. well we're all
different. and i don't accept your idea that i
would have a more productive life if i denied my
problems. i tried it for years, and believe me,
it didn't work very well."
-kelly aka culprit
systems engineer @ Microsoft
----------------------------------------------
=============================================
=============================================
MaryBeth
FMVP (former most valuable psycho)
(super psycho bitch
lunatic queen of the
mentally fucked in
the head)
Has contributed greatly to the annual profit
results at several large pharmaceutical corps
has taken virtually every mentally ill (crazy)
drug treatment in the book, and then some:
prozac, zoloft, amitryptiline, Buspar, Xanax,
effexor, paxil, HRT, wellbutrin, tranquilizers,
clomid,
MaryBeth has suffered from or been:
TIDAL WAVES OF PMS
suicidal, agoraphobic, tidal waves of PMS,
mood swings, turned into a hermit, bloated,
just real angry, hubby afraid of her, high
blood pressure, divorced, "raving bitch"
"zoloft zombie" for four years, "living
through layers and layers of gauze," chain
smoker, buzzing, weight gain, fatigue,
terrible dry mouth, dull headaches, fuzzy
brain, lack of concentration..etc.
severe depression, severe insomnia, Panic
ALL the time, crying, not sleeping, you name
it...etc...
MaryBeth (on being seriously f'd in the head
aka mentally ill) aka cuckoo! kuckoo! ding! ding! ding!
aka a superpsychotic bitch from hell
I RAN OVER EVERYONE IN MY PATH
"I know for a fact I went thru years of
being overly sensitive, being a b*tch,
being self centered, being self pitying,
you name it, I was a wreck and I ran over
everyone in my path."
"<G> I do know the power of meds, especially
on a long term basis, and it's not pretty.
You become another person, if it's not the
correct med for you.
--All the best,
MaryBeth
DON'T TAKE ULTRAM AND ZOLOFT TOGETHER
"Yup Diane, I am taking Zoloft, and my
Rheumatologist told me that taking
Ultram with it can cause seizures."
"I have all the symptoms.I am suicidal at
times (cyclical) have severe insomnia,
'crawly' skin etc. I have an appt to see
my doc next Friday to test for menopause."
--MaryBeth
ME NOT SO HORNY
"I noticed that antidepressants cut libido
into the dead zone and I had no real emotions,
like not laughing at funny stuff, couldn't cry
either.....except about my suicidal thoughts
(but at the time I thought there was no other
way out)."
--MaryBeth
NEW TO GROUP
"Hi, new to group, just starting Clomid today.
I talked with RE and pharmacist re: zoloft (50
mg daily) and ineraction with Clomid. They
reported none. Not sure about the prozac tho.
Gonna poat a new message to intorduce
myself :)"
--MaryBeth <still feeling
like herself> <G>
WASTED 10 YEARS
"I wasted about 10 years of my life, and lost
many many treasured ppl and things. Please
don't do the same. (((((((SCOUT))))))))))
--MaryBeth
WAS HORRIBLE
"Slowly but surely my depression got worse and
worse. They put me on meds for it, and all
along kept telling me to wait on the TKR, as
'it really wasn't that bad.....yet". HA!"
The depression got so bad, and lots of other
things happened and my ex and I would up
divorced four years after our move. It was
horrible. The hardest thing I have eve gone
thru"
--MaryBeth
=============================================
=============================================
Theresa Willis
(paxil, depression, robot displacement)
Theresa is a gang banger who comes out
of cutesy robot mode when it's time to
gang attack people with her pal shelly
Victim is usually Leah, but may be a
random person.
=============================================
=============================================
shelly
couvrette
OUR NEWEST MVP (MOST VALUABLE PSYCHOTIC)
All in the Mental Family
shelly: severe OCD
shelly's mom: chronic depression
shelly's brother: severe BiPolar
Severe OCD, depression, prescribed Paxil
for mental illness, but claims she does
not take it, resulting in an obsessive
basket case online persona. Posts more than
any other female in all dog newsgroups
(familial mental illness, possibly related
to family bed) obsessively starves her
dogs according to friends, family,
strangers and 3 different vets, but
not herself (see below). Still thinks
of herself as a five year old ballerina
despite the fact that she is a fat
adult in her mid thirties.
PAGE ALL THE WAY UP FOR BONUS COVERAGE
NEW, HATTIE DOWN TO 47 POUNDS!!
NEWER, SHELLY GOES KUCKOOO!!! Over
shih tzu's being fed almost as much
as hattie (page to top)
=============================================
=============================================
lynn
kosmakos
RPD* Enemy of Dogs #1
(Lithium, Zoloft, bipolar, manic,
depression) will "put down a biter
as fast as anyone" yet claims to
be a saintly dog rescuer. Murders
dogs because of insurance rates
Her brother was attacked by a Golden
Retriever when she was young. For
this reason, she murders easily
trainable dogs. Condemns dogs to
death who are easily trainable
with her "evaluations."
Is nice to people in person, but
her true dog hating nature comes
out on newsgroups with
extreme clarity.
Advocates shooting dogs on sight, when
they chase deer. Sees no other
option. Her own dog Java had to be shocked
with a shock collar to keep him from
chasing deer.
has been on lithium for approximately
20 years. Zoloft for an undetermined
number of years
1200mg LITHIUM
50mg ZOLOFT
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder
(manic-depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium
and 50 mg of Zoloft every day. I, also, care
about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post
such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."
WE EARN THE RIGHT TO PARTICIPATE
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."
Lynn K.
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
From: Chris Kosmakos (chris...@netcom.com)
Subject: Re: Prozac - Good medication or no?
I TAKE A SIMILAR DRUG MYSELF
"Yes, for very specific behaviorial problems.
I would have to trust my vet and behaviorist
a lot, and be very sure that I had exhausted
every other option before I used Prozac to
deal with a dog problem - and I take a
similar drug, Zoloft, myself."
Lynn K.
CAUGHT ON TAPE AT WOODSTOCK (I'M IN THE MOVIE)
From: Lynn K. (java...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Using Zoloft or Prozac as a one
shot treatment
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2001-09-27 23:13:46 PST
Gwen Watson <g...@ig.utexas.edu> wrote in message
<news:3BB2402B...@ig.utexas.edu>...
> At Woodstock?????? Oh you lucky, lucky women!
> I will be forever jealous of you devulging this tid
> bit of info! GGGGggggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
More of us than you know. I'm even in the movie.
Let me tell you about trying to advise a teenager
about drugs after the ever-helpful uncle points out
your 15 seconds of fame - passing a joint to the
cameraman as Arlo Gutrie croons "coming into Los
Angeleeeze......." in the background :-( Kind of
undermines the parental authority thing.
Lynn K.
=============================================
=============================================
Leah
Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
about being mentally ill. Has taken
several other mentally ill medications
before settling on effexor for her
chronic mental problems. Leah is
improving as a dog trainer and wants
to open her own training/boarding
kennel soon and write a book.
This drives her fellow
mentally ill regulars nuts (read shelly
Lynn K.), especially if Leah succeeds
while other loonies continue to sit on
their fat behinds
Leah is a relatively stable crazy person
but she just might be the agent that drives
others to jump off of a cliff
NEW, Leah gets a new job. Switches mental
medication from Effexor to Zyban
=============================================
=============================================
Bethgsd
German Shepherd enthusiast Bethgsd is
taking an unamed SSRI for severe
depression.
Here, Bethgsd, points out to Gwen the
importance of being understanding about
the mental problems of crazy people.
GWEN, GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS
I SUFFER FROM SEVERE DEPRESSION
"Well, Gwen I suffer from severe depression
which is controlled by a particular SSRI and
I find it insulting that you don't feel that
chemical imbalances can be lifethreatening.
No, I don't go into status but I've attempted
to commit suicide a few too many times. And
no, those weren't little "cries for help"
they were honest to G-D attemts to get out of
the pain.
So get your head out of your ass and realize
that chemical imbalances can be as life
threatening, if in a different way, than
electrical misfiring."
Beth [aka Bethgsd]
=============================================
=============================================
Tara O. aka Tee
UNTIL YOU'VE LIVED WITH THIS DISORDER
YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND HOW DEVASTATING
Tara O. aka Tee, is in many ways a typical suburban
South Carolinian soccer mom. Upon casual inspection,
nothing appears to be amiss. Tara, aka Tee spends her
free time surfing the internet and is a big fan of the
WB's "Gilmore Girls." Tara is also a passionate member
of the Carolina Boxer Rescue network. The only sign of
controversy or untowardness is that Tara's own Boxer
Summer was suddently put to sleep in October 2001,
despite several offers from an Orlando, FL dog expert
(Jerry Howe) to adopt her, claiming he could easily
cure Summer's behavioral problems.
Looking at Tara today, you'd never know that when she
was a teen, she suffered for five years with the
debilitating mental disorder, known as anorexia.
Tara is now a healthy weighted (some would say
plump) mom in her thirties, but during her teens
Tara O. (along with her Bulimic Friend), looked like
a skeleton.
like so many of the mentally ill before her, Tara O.
is coming forward because she wants to educate those
who come after her. The message Tara is sending is
clear. Mental illness is nothing to be ashamed of.
"We don't have to hide any longer!" she seems to be
saying.
Tara O. aka, Tee attributes her anorexia to
a lack of self esteem, which sprung from peer
pressure and an upbringing that could have been
more nurturing.
Determined that the same fate not befall her daughter
Amie, and out of a belief that no child should have to
follow the same path of self destruction and starvation,
Tara, in graphic and sometimes excruciating detail
relives the drama of how she was bowed and broken by,
but ultimately came back to beat anorexia.
YOU GO (gilmore) Girl!
Tara and Amie's harrowing saga (below) is a cautionary
tale and a must read for all of those, who care deeply
about the future of young girls in America. This is an
issue that affects both young and old, black and white,
male and female all across America.
Tara is doing everything in her power, including
medicating her daughter Amie with Ritalin, so that Amie
does not have to feel the sting of self esteem issues,
brought on by peer pressure courtesy of the cliques of
marauding "mean girls" who prey on young females
struggling to find their way and their indentity during
the precarious and perilous passage from adolescence
to young adulthood. We can only be thankful that Tara
prevailed and lived to tell her story.
We wish Tara O and her daughter Amie nothing but success
in overcoming mental illness and mental disorders. Tara
and Amie, you are an inspiration to us all!
I BATTLED ANOREXIA FOR MOST OF MY TEEN YEARS
WE BOTH LOOKED STICK THIN
Well if you had one and you did it to gain attention
then quite frankly you'd be the first person I have
ever heard of taking that approach. I battled anorexia
for most of my teen years and had a very good
acquaintance who was bulimic and almost died. We both
looked stick thin but could cover the circles around
our eyes with makeup and the colorless, chapped lips
with lipstick. How often did any of us see Diana out
in public during this time with no makeup on as well
as up-close & personal?
--
Tara
Carolina Boxer Rescue
Page to the top for more...
=============================================
=============================================
Paula
OUR FIRST CRAZY MORMON
Paula is a divorced Mormon Mom who dabbles freely
in Kibology, leaving herself at risk for being
Smite into a pile of rubble by either an angry,
vengeful God or worse yet, a Kibo unglued.
As a California based youth counselor, Paula
helps children deal with physical & emotional
problems while dealing with mental problems of
her own. Particularly chronic depression for
which she is drugged.
Paula has a long history of questioning her
faith, questioning her mother and worrying about
whether or not she'll be excommunicated for the
thoughts in her head. With good reason, after
spending so much time fraternizing with free
thinking, blaspheming Kibologists.
At one point, when Paula was suffering from a
heavy bout of depression, and in violation of
Mormonology and her mother's own advice, she
eschewed prayer and instead enlisted the heelp of
Harco Industries own twillis, who cruelly
flaunted her vaunted Paxil supply
"Sorry, go ride a horse, hands off my
Paxil."
says HARCO's twillis
WON'T SHARE MY PAXIL WITH PAULA
From: HarCo Industries (tdwil...@earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: I need
Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology
Date: 2003-05-13 09:48:41 PST
mmmtobler...@earthlink.ent (Paula) wrote
> I need something to get me out of this
> deepening depression.
I prescribe a horseback ride.
Really.
I'd share my Paxil with you, but I'm selfish.
twillis
To which Paula responded:
THE PAXIL IS NOT ENOUGH
"HAH! Paxil stopped working for me
and I had to switch to Celexa, for the
really and truly messed up!"
Paula
Page to the top for much more on
this mental case
=============================================
=============================================
Tara Green
Tara Green is a dog trainer of sorts in New York
City left rpd* claiming that she could
not afford internet access and/or a computer,
but her story is of value nonetheless
was on antidepressants for a few years
prior to her marriage. During her
marriage, she learned a lot:
"With the therapist I saw during my
marriage I learned that some
situational depressions are masked as
chemical simply because of our too human
ability to prolong the impact of the
causal situations indefinitely"
Sounds like more denial, see leah
Tara is also a drunk who has also had
problems with other substances
TARA on being a drunk/substance abuser:
"Tara (who had some problems with quite a
few substances as well, but who thinks they
are separate issues.....so which camp does
that put me in???)"
"Believe it or not, some people don't have
a problem with drugs even though they are
alcoholics. I'm not one of those people,
but they do exist."
aka, tara has problems with both
=============================================
=============================================
Kevin
Michael
Vail
various mental illness drugs, started with
zoloft, didn't like that, then went to
antidepressant, stopped after sufficent
side effects, now on SSRI and in therapy
Kevin is a homosexual but there is no
evidence that this is the cause of him
being crazy
=============================================
=============================================
Furpaw
(SSRI, cognitive therapy)
otherwise, a fairly boring
and nondescript crazy person
=============================================
=============================================
Chris Jung
(Prozac and Welbutrin,
cognitive therapy)
CHRIS JUNG on the
PROZE and CONS of PROZAC
I have to comment here. Anti-depressants such
as Prozac do not have any "drugging" effect. It
doesn't tranquilize, make euphoric, or cause
any sort of change in behavior except for
bringing the brain imbalances back to normal
and thus reducing depression. I take Prozac and
the difference between being on Prozac and not
is very subtle. I still feel everything (happy,
sad, nervous, mad) but I'm just not as
unreasonably bummed about it.
=============================================
=============================================
Charlie
Wilkes
drugged out, crazy, fucked up all his
life, Christ the shit he's been through
including psych wards and electroshock
treatments but now pulling down major cash
as a business consultant. Triumphing over
adversity, with a damn good life and a
well trained dog. One of our most lucid
regulars, despite (or maybe because of?)
a penchant for phat philly blunts.
=============================================
=============================================
Karen
DuChateaux
aka Karibear
suffered from clinical depression for years
until some drug or something brought her out
of it. Some of her best friends "are
certifiable" and have various degrees of
psychoses. Familial mental disability.
Refuses to say whether or not she is
currently using drug or cognitive therapy
for mental illness.
=============================================
=============================================
Mike
"DumbOxDumb"
Dufort
threatened non violent dog expert Jerry Howe
with Mike's fully armed US Army Platoon.
Threatened to bring his platoon to Jerry's
HOWSE. also OCD (obsessed with Jerry's posts)
=============================================
=============================================
Jim "Brain
Shivers"
Sabatke
Jim is currently on Effexor which he takes
because of his depression/mental problems.
Like many of our mental cases, Jim has had
trouble finding the right med(s) to keep him
from going kuckoo!! kuckoooo!!! or getting
the "brain shivers"
From: Jim Sabatke (jsaba...@execpc.com)
Subject: Re: anyone using Effexor?
alt.support.depression.medication
Date: 2002-11-29 20:25:16 PST
EFFEXOR
"I'm on 375 mg/day and it has worked
wonders for me. The only down side is
that my blood pressure has elevated
somewhat; oh and if I miss a dose by a
couple of hours the "brain shivers" can
be really bad.
Good luck!
Jim
"I switched from Paxil to Effexor about
5 months ago. I tapered off of the Paxil
and tapered onto the Effexor at the same
time."
Jim
"After several years on Effexor IR, my
pdoc tried switching me to XR. I
experienced fairly severe Effexor
withdrawel until I went back to the IR."
Jim
=============================================
=============================================
<YOUR NAME GOES HERE>
(please proudly add your name and the drugs/disorders specific to you,
if you are also mentally ill). If we all come forward, we can help
each other with our problems. Remember, mental illness is nothing to
be ashamed of. It's not your fault if you have a defective brain which
may cause you to act like an extreme hypocrite and/or idiot and/or
robot without your being aware of it).
Also, please notify us if you are *not* mentally ill, and have been
added to this by mistake, so we can make our corrections and remove
you from the crazy person list.
===========================================
This has been a production of
dogtv.com networks
your world leader in dog entertraining
this marks the end of the rec.pets.dogs.* crazy person list
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Further Explains The Mental Illness List
==========================================
In the past, before Michael fixed things, this was a
way to shut people up and discredit people. Calling
them mentally ill. shelly told us not to even talk
to the mentally ill.
But it turned out most of the people doing the
accusing and finger pointing and "you better take
your meds" etc... were mentally ill themselves.
That's a huge story, and I SCOOPED IT.
MaryBeth for instance, was constantly telling
people to take their meds. Once I started to
do a little research, the floodgates opened
and an amazing story unfolded.
==========================================
copyright 2004
dogtv.com networks
you are free to reproduce this list for
group harmony purposes
--
this is michael
the voice of reason
reporting live...
http://dogtv.com
Kevin S. Wilson
That's two words.
AnimalBehaviorForensicSc...@hushmail.com
Monroe, of course... wrote:
> In article <11p4i4o...@news.supernews.com>, Mark-E...@comcast.net
> wrote:
>
> > [snip dog training]
> >
> > No cluons were harmed when "Benny Hinn" <bananah...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >I pray also that you all accept Jesus into your hearts.
> >
> > Because if you accept Him into your gall bladder, YOU'RE GONNA
> > DIE!!!!!
> >
> > Which reminds me, if you choose to accept Jesus into any of your body
> > parts, what is the safeword?
>
> "Eucharist"
>
> > Mark-going-to-hell-Edwards
>
> You're in splendid company!
Naaalaah. Them's ain't SPLENDID company...
> Cheese in the corner with a mile long beard
> Bacon blue-bread dog eared Bacon blue-bread dog eared
> I may be hungry but I sure ain't weird
HERE'S SPLENDID COMPANY:
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
PERHAPS your mentally ill daddy or mammy will
come bye an give you another pretty cool spankin?:
HOWEDY Deltones,
Deltones wrote:
> Rocky wrote:
> > "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> > rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what would be the
> > > point? Where I come from, choking is choking. It's never limited.
Not so in PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING, Deltones.
> > So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> > Thank you for your contribution.
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
Looks like you've pushed the mental cases over the edge again...
> Well, I think you carefully avoided quoting the last part of my post.
> You know the one about a bunch of little Colonel Parker doing Elvis's
> out of their dogs? Oh right, limited choking is not abuse, and pumping
> dogs full of drugs to make them behave ain't either in your world huh?
> For the benefit of our gentle readers, here's the part you forgot to
> quote:
> ----------
> Oh, what the hell. Check out a thread started around Nov 23 called
> "Help with a Nuerotic Hound..." where I wonder if you guys are talking
> about dogs or Woody Allen's pharmacy. I'll stick with praises and noise
> distraction to train my dog, thank you.
> ----------
HOWEDY janet,
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> >> cobbled them together,
"Neatly," and "Smartly."
> >> and a fake signature.
"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.
That so?
> >> is downright meaningless.
> > Here's yours;
See?
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
>By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
>suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
>that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
>the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
>crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
>you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
>dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Mark Shaw (m...@bangnetcom.com)
Subject: Re: Fido-Shock
Date: 2002-04-10 14:12:18 PST
In article <gWLs8.203228$af7.101030@rwcrnsc53>,
"Coleman Brumley" <clbrum...@home.com> wrote:
>Has anyone had experience with this product (Fido-Shock).
>If so, what model number, voltage, etc.?
If you're talking about the pet-grade hotwire system, I have
one. It's to keep boarded dogs out of my flowers.
>I have a 1.5 year St Bernard who is scaling (not clearing --
>more like falling over) our 4 foot fence to visit with owners
>walking their dogs. I thought of raising the fence a foot or
>so, but don't think that'll solve the problem. I've tried
>watching her outside, and give a stern "NO" when she
>props on the fence for a peek over it. No avail.
>I've heard this product works after just a couple of tries.
I take it you're considering running the wire across the top
of the fence? I don't think I'd recommend that, although it
may be worth a try. Watch closely -- the one case where I saw
a hotwire used in this fashion caused the dog undue stress and
frustration, and he tried even harder to get over the fence.
So be prepared to take it down right away.
That was a Dane, though. With a Saint things might be
different.
--
Mark Shaw
Subject: Re: Video clip......."Nero" practicing
bark alert, while walking backwards
Date: 2004-06-05 18:53:50 PST
"micha el" <spam_yurs...@spamyourmamma.com> wrote in message
news:yIydnZpPsIz...@comcast.com...
> Anyway, contrary to your PR, this is what
> it felt like to me when I got shocked by
> Hope's collar.
> It felt like a bomb going off in my
> hand and forearm.
--------------------------------
"Tricia9999" <tricia9...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021117101433...@mb-cg.aol.com...
> how effective are these electronic fences in
> keeping a dog on a property????
Some run through it. Others get shocked and become
too scared to go out in the yard anymore.
Just heard of a guy that has to rehome his dog,
because the dog got caught right in the path of
the shock and will now not go near his person,
won't go outside.
Just hides under a desk in the house.
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!
"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.
"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without
starting the whole cruelty thread again so I'll
state my opinion once and won't defend it further:
any method can be cruel for some dogs.
Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at the
beginning, but we've come a long way since then.
She trusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.
Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
not coming.
Is it time for that?
What might I look for to tell?"
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@comcast.net>
wrote in message news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@attbi_s51...
>
> After talking with the vet yesterday and watching
> Cubbe all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking
> is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I'll continue
> keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything
> up, I don't see symptoms of anything neurological--
> and the vet agrees.
> --Lia
"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Lynn K.
Lynn K.
---------------------------------
Paxil Princess psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."
"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them more
sharply.
REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.
Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your will fades in importance.
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the
dog will give in
With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'
Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.
Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
> >> Which one is it?
Lynn K.
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
Lynn K.
Lynn K.
---------------------------------------
YOU DO THE MATH
Lois E.
-------------------------------------
> "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatri...@adelphia.net>
------------------------------------------------------
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars
Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63...@4ax.com...
Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.
The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.
What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.
I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.
I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.
Sally Hennessey
"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv...@4ax.com...
Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.
I'm starting to see some similarities here.
Sally Hennessey
From: Momi...@webtv.net (misty)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:29:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?
Beth wrote:
>So, jerry's techniques didnt' work for Peach?
Never had a chance to try them on her... I was still
using the e-fence and chains to keep her in the yard.
The suggestions I received here to keep Peach home were:
build a fence... wasn't going to happen.. we plan on putting
a modular home here within the next few years... put more
fence at the top of the pen I used so both dogs could play
bitey face w/o tangling, and similar suggestions.
Jerry was the only one to mention border training... but he
was kook supreme ;-P So I ignored him... no killfiles with
webtv.. at that time Jerry had his own troll, somewhat like
Candace, so the group was not very conducive to learning anything.
At one point I even b*tched about Jerry.
By the time I tried out Jerry's manual Peach had already ran away.
Not very good at the google groups search but you'll find my
first post at "runaway dog message 30" within that thread is
mention of the dogs taking off and being gone for 2 days. I
stopped posting for a bit... my middle boy was devastated that
his dog was gone... Zelda came home but not her mom.
The next few posts from me were ones about/to Jerry.
Then Jerry made the WETM accessible for webbes, I put it
in my e-mail (no storage otherwise on webby unless you put
stuff on a webpage) and read it, read it and read it.
Once I understood what the concept was, I implemented it
on Zelda. It worked and I now have a great housedog!
I only regret that my own distrust of Jerry caused me to lose
another wonderful dog. Peach was an absolute gem with little
kids. I and my boys still miss her. Sometimes I still look
to see if she came home when we get back from trips. Maybe
Peach would still have ran away... I don't know and never will....
~misty
From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:16:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?
Peach would be there sittin pretty had our pals not given you a bum
steer cause they're EMBARRASSED and AFRAID of losing their careers
and reputations.... Jerry.
Stick around, we're just startin to have FUN learning and sharing...
j;~)
"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net wrote in message news:
16990-3CAB1F8...@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...
I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know she's
not here with us. I really can't blame anyone here for her
loss.
I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because of how
you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the idea that my
using a shock collar could have any bearing on Peach not
wanting to stay home.
Up until I started using it my main concern had been keeping
my dogs in their own yard.
Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my concern
became how to keep them from running off for days on end.
I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in the
anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.
I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world now <g>
A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely housetrained,
doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard, and doesn't bark all
the time.
IOW a great companion and friend.
Thanks Jerry!
=====================
misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6...@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two
dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars.
Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come
back in the yard and would run for days.
The last time, Peach didn't come back home.
I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train
my dog. She is now border trained. A few minutes each day
reinforces her desire to stay in the yard.
She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop her from
chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we walk around
the yard.
I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the
e-fence and its collars. If you can't get a regular fence
then you need to train your dog.
I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog in
our yard again.
The price was too high:-( ~misty
--------------------------------
DECENT PEOPLE DO NO POST HERE abHOWETS:
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
--Marshall Dermer
Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"
< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.
'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.
>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of shit you really are
Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?
Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman
=====================
> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus
<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>
> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:
I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.
This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.
The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.
To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.
Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.
"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.
Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.
> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.
> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.
Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)
===========
Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy,
"you insipid piece of cow dung!"
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400
Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.
I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.
There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.
Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology
Chris McGonnell
>Chris McGonnell <sme...@NOkey-net.net> wrote in
>news:6vp3p1p1mbqlbi8uv...@4ax.com:
>
>> On 3 Dec 2005 08:21:01 -0800, Dog Choker Howe wrote:
>>
>>>HOWEDY kibo fruitcakes,
>>
>> You aren't worthy of posting to r.p.d., you vicious DOG BEATER! Oh
>> yes, Nazi Howe, I've seen the secretly taped video of you CRUELLY
>> whipping a dog with your leather leash -- the video so graphic 20/20
>> couldn't air it when that show aired its program of Internet con men
>> who cheat honest people (in this case dog trainers) out of their
>> HARD-EARNED money and then beat the poor dogs with cruel, cruel
>> instruments.
>>
>> HOWE'd you like it if somebody beat YOU with a baseball bat, you
>> DOG-ABUSING scum?
>
>Really?
>
>I hadn't heard about this before.
>
>Can you elaborate please?
Jerry will, count on it.
Chris McGonnell
>HOWEDY kevin,
>
>Kevin S. Wilson wrote:
>> On 3 Dec 2005 12:49:47 -0800, IHateToSayIt...@Inbox.Com
>> wrote:
>>
>> <snip raving lunacy>
>>
>> Who drug this loon into ARK again?
>
>The Amazing Puppy Wizard JUST SEZ "NO!" to drugs:
>
>HOWEDY jeff,
>
>THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard is BEGGIN
>alt.religion.kibology to enter the dog trainin discussions:
So it wants drugs and beggin strips, precious-s-s-s. We doesn't have
to give him any, nas-s-sty dog beater. Gives 'em to Harlan, yes-s-s my
dear.